Bad night at anglins

phillybass71 · Post by **phillybass71** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:41 pm

Want to hear a Bad time. I went to anglins to try shark fishing. I was south of the pier and was setting up when an officer of the law came up to me. He was nice enough to be completely rude to me. He ask me what the hell I thought I was going to do on his beach. When I told him I was just trying to catch a few fish He got really mad and told me to get my a** off his beach. I told him it was a public beach and I wasn't bothering anyone. He then proceded to kick a whole in my elcheapo styrofoam cooler and flip my sled over dumping my things into the sand. He escorted me off the beach and told me if he ever saw me on the beach again he would take me to jail the hard way. I have never had anything happen like this before and I was trying to hold my temper with him but I wonder why I don't like to be around officers sometimes

Perichois · Post by **Perichois** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:36 am

Man that pisses me off.

I almost went to jail one time.I was in MY yeah thats right MY backyard throwing my castnet and some chick officer came into the empty lot beside me and told me I couldn't throw my net so I said I wasn't aware that I couldn't throw a net.She told me if she ever saw me throwing my net again I was going too Juvenile jail.

And another time I was fishing in my favorite snapper hole and the officer came and started digging through my fishing gear with out asking I understand they sometimes have the right too do that but this guy just started digging through my crap.Then he just turned got in his car and drove away.

I hope that made you feel a little better...lol.

BTW:I really appreciate what officers do but some of them are pricks that enjoy there job too much or just because there having a bad day the pick on other people.

phillybass71 · Post by **phillybass71** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:08 am

I agree with you there I just hate to be the one they decide to mess with.

phillybass71 · Post by **phillybass71** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:29 pm

ok I'll see ya there

kyfisherman · Post by **kyfisherman** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:07 pm

I know I'm a redneck from KY, but I'lll tell ya what. You'd seen one piggy swimming in the ocean if he tried that with me. Gun or no gun I'd packed him down the beach and dare him to get out lol.

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:11 am

I will be posting a reply to this post as to, if the Police officer had the right to stop Philly from fishing on the beach.

This post will be made on Monday night after I talk to Florida State legal offices of FWC concerning the right to fish our beaches.

At that time I will inform what I have learned as to was a Fisherman's Rights denied.

We already know that the officer was out of line with his behavior, I believe Phillybass71.

If his rights to fish that beach were denied inturn then my rights were denied and I will not stand for that.

I am looking into this because I wish to know my rights as to were in the state of Florida I am allowed to fish without harrassment. So check this post for more info later.

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:28 am

I will await the post, I believe that some people let power go to their heads. However their "powers" end where my rights and those of all other anglers begin!

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:04 pm

I have contacted them and I am awaiting a reply from a specific person.

kyfisherman · Post by **kyfisherman** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:18 pm

i think this country has lost its mind personally, everyone is so hung up on authority. I've got the authority, wooop de dooo, they abuse there rights and only hurt the innocent bystanders.

a major problem we face here in ky is volunteer fire departments, here where i live there is no 2 story building for 15 miles either way, and yet they apply for grants to get 200k dollar fire trucks, and they don't use the used ones they got, but they get them so they can stand in front of them to get there pictures taken, they dont even meet requirements to lower our insurance, but at the same time they brag about screwing the government outta 200k for a new truck, they didnt screw no one but the tax payers. It's outta hand, but hey they got the "authority" to do it so ohhhhh welll........

I know this was off the main topic but it's just an example i beleive on how everyone who has the authority to supposively "help" ends up abusing that right and eventually screwing the people they try to help

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:38 am

Ok citys like Lauderdale by he sea can apply State Statue 370.102 State preemption of power to regulate.

Which it would seem to give that city the right to remove someone and make a no fishing area.

If a Beach is owned by the State and not the city than the city can not stop you from fishing only the State.

This info comes from the Assistant General Counsel to the State of Florida or FWC, so I must believe that this Lawyer is correct even though there is laws that prohibit citys from making no fishing laws.

It really seems like a giant loop and depeneding on what side you look from the answer changes.

kyfisherman · Post by **kyfisherman** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:00 pm

yeah i believe they could fly a 747 through that loop hole... It doesn't make any sense at all. What could he have possibly been hurting by fishing? THey make it seem that fishing is a bad thing that must be stopped or something. I don't understand this at all, its a bummer.

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:46 pm

I am still questioning all of this because you can't believe the different answers I am getting from one extreme to another.

Its almost like laws go back and forth and cross each other out.

jad1097 · Post by **jad1097** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:44 pm

This is an interesting read. IMO the cities are breaking the law.
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/04/11/Colum ... blow.shtml

"In 1996, for example, Cohoon deliberately got himself ticketed off Demens Landing in St. Petersburg by throwing a cast net in front of a police officer. Then he sued the city. Senior Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Helen Hansel ruled in Cohoon's favor.

Last year Cohoon, whose full name is Clifford Nicholas Cohoon, even got a favorable finding from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. It was titled, IN RE: PETITION OF CLIFFORD CAHOON (sic) FOR DECLARATORY STATEMENT CONCERNING LOCAL GOVERNMENT REGULATION OF FISHING, Order No. EO02-02.

The statement said that until the commission says otherwise, cities are limited to the usual health and safety matters, and not to other regulation of saltwater fishing itself.

Yet with this declaration, did the heavens open? Did church bells peal? Did Florida's cities, confronted with Nick Cohoon's victory, slap their foreheads in dismay and rush to wipe their local ordinances off the books?

They did not." <SNIP>

http://faw.dos.state.fl.us/newfaw/FawVo ... /SECTX.pdf
FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION COMMISSION

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT the Fish and Wildlife
Conservation Commission has issued a Declaratory Statement
in response to the petition of Clifford Cahoon. The statement
issued May 22, 2002, holds that Section 370.102, Florida
Statutes, does not allow a local government to “regulate”
fishing from its own real property, but that the constitutional
nature of the FWCC’s exercise of “regulatory and executive
authority of the state with respect to marine life” would allow it
to supersede Section 370.102, Florida Statutes, and establish acooperative jurisdictional arrangement with local governments
for the regulation of fishing from publicly-owned docks and
piers.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/ind ... 2#0370.102

370.102 State preemption of power to regulate.--The power to regulate the taking or possession of saltwater fish, as defined in s. 370.01, is expressly reserved to the state. This section does not prohibit a local government from prohibiting, for reasons of protecting the public health, safety, or welfare, saltwater fishing from real property owned by that local government.

A copy of the declaratory statement may be obtained by
writing: James V. Antista, General Counsel, Fish and Wildlife
Conservation Commission, 620 South Meridian Street,
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1600.

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:01 pm

I hear you Jad,

Your right, But now one must get the State to stop it from happening.
I am writeing some more Emails and will wait to hear from the State.

So everyone knows the Gov's Office has never returned a single message regarding this issue and it has been almost a year and I have sent numerous messages.

jad1097 · Post by **jad1097** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:25 pm

It depends on how they define "public safety". I think we are stuck with this "public safety" loophole until someone actually does something about it. IMO when ticketed sue the city or county, for now, like Cohoon did. If everyone who is ticketed does that it may not go unnoticed.

It appears Broward county is in violation of the law with their 7' cast net size limit.

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:28 pm

Fuzzy(as in not clear) · Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:39 pm

From jad1097

It depends on how they define "public safety". I think we are stuck with this "public safety" loophole until someone actually does something about it. IMO when ticketed sue the city or county, for now, like Cohoon did. If everyone who is ticketed does that it may not go unnoticed.

I could handle the ticket and the fight, but, like phillybass, I sure couldn't handle the "go directly to jail"

I do have a feeling the condo comando's, with nothing better to do, have put a bug in some one's ear. Probably a Commissioner that lives in a condo very close to the pier and has to put up with a barrage of bothersome comments!

SnookWizzard · Post by **SnookWizzard** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:49 am

BoatlessFisherman wrote:Ok citys like Lauderdale by he sea can apply State Statue 370.102 State preemption of power to regulate.

Which it would seem to give that city the right to remove someone and make a no fishing area.

If a Beach is owned by the State and not the city than the city can not stop you from fishing only the State.

This info comes from the Assistant General Counsel to the State of Florida or FWC, so I must believe that this Lawyer is correct even though there is laws that prohibit citys from making no fishing laws.

It really seems like a giant loop and depeneding on what side you look from the answer changes.

................................................................The very first thing to do is write down the time and police officers name before U forget......1) To be cited for tresspassing, the area must be posted every 100? feet or be fenced.....& posted........2) the area that has public access, the beach, must aslo be posted no fishing......3) arguing or questioning the authority of the jerk cop will do nothing but pzz him off more...........4) The way to register a legal cmplaint is with the CITY MANAGERS OFFICE!!!!! ....It then get's documented but only if it is a WRITTEN COMPLAINT!! ...........Then it goes to the chief of police, which will then do an internal investigation of the officer & the applicable law....(city only).......If you have the states version of any law that may apply, such as the statutes posted on this forum which applies to INTERFERENCE in taking game or fish by legal means, have this with you & provide a copy AFTER the city mgr does his review........If you don't like the results.......You may also file a complaint with the state attorny's office, but have the law with you from FWC or they won't waste their time unless they see the light..... You can make an appointment with the city attorney to view the city's laws on this topic if it is not available....again, contact the city mgr......in letter form...Want to scare them, sent it certified w/return reciept. ....Document every thing........Then there's always the media hounds like "shame on you" & "Help me Howard".....not to mention a news reporter looking for story......If you have the documentation they are not acting within the law, they will Jump on it sometimes for a story......no documentation, just keep getting sand kicked in your face.........ME, I'M TIRED of HARRASMENT BY ANYONE!!!!! The State Constitution prohibits ANY GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL from taking away your LEGAL RIGHTS to pursue your right to privacy,(tackle box) and enjoy your hobby (persuehappiness etc..).....When you start a bonfire of cow poop with the city & throw in Constitutional lawsuit, watch what happens.....The city protects itself with a $$$ limit on suits, but NOT in a CONSTITUTIONAL lawsuit, $$$$$ millions......I have had my share of legal research, & the city doesn't ever want to see me again, for sure......Start taking up everyones time & harrass them for a change,legally......That cop'll wish he never saw you......

SnookWizzard · Post by **SnookWizzard** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:08 pm

BoatlessFisherman wrote:I hear you Jad,

Your right, But now one must get the State to stop it from happening.
I am writeing some more Emails and will wait to hear from the State.

So everyone knows the Gov's Office has never returned a single message regarding this issue and it has been almost a year and I have sent numerous messages.

..............................................................You will get better & faster results filing a charge against the city in the county's state attorney's office.....no merit?? they send you a legal letter stating why not.....If this were a BLACK fisherman, WOOOHOOOO!!! what a lawsuit.......Everyone's right to persue happiness & race???........Reguardless, every possible law gets investigated by the state attorneys office if you have the statutes to back up what law you believe was broken. They are all available @ myflorida.com under state statutes & constitution

Master-Baiter · Post by **Master-Baiter** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:56 pm

As a long time Broward resident, my understanding and interpretation of this situation is as follows:

(I have NOT tested this, preferring to avoid confrontation)

Lauderdale by the Sea has had a "No Fishing" law for years. If they see you on the beach with fishing equipment, they will ask you to leave, or possibly arrest you.

However, if you are NOT on the LBTS beach, but wading below the high tide mark, or deeper into the water, than you are "legal". and protected by state and federal laws. When below the high tide mark, you are not on private land, you are in navigable waterways.

As I seem to recall, there are even some court cases and suits over this. I want to say Oscar Meyer, the meat packers, who have some land in Florida, and closed off or barricaded a canal so boaters, canoers, kayakers, etc could not access it. Since it was a "navigable waterway", they lost the suit, but I don't remember any specifics, and it may have been a different major brand meat packer company. I seem to think it happened in the early 80's.

My point is, as I understand the law, etc, is that no one has the right to restict access to a navigable waterway.

The LBTS cops most likely will not go into the water to get you. They will stand on the beach and call you, and when you exit the ocean with equipment, than they 'have' you on their turf, and their laws could apply.

So if someone really wanted to test the system, and the laws, they could probably wade into LBTS from Ft. Laud Galt Ocean Mile area, and fish. When the cops show up, ignore them, and don't leave the water.

Of course, they may feel they have given you a lawfull order, come get you, arrest you, beat you senseless for resisting them, etc.

I also suspect that, in the past, others have been arrested for fishing in LBTS. Whether they were on the beach or below high tide, and how they handled themselves, I do not know.

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:07 pm

It is too far for me to drive to after work... Otherwise I would go and test it, I hate "shady" laws... Besides, fishing is not hurting anyone in any shape, way, or form!!!

SnookWizzard · Post by **SnookWizzard** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:27 pm

one of the BF members lives in a condo on the beach & fishes there all the time.....Mabe if you were fishing farther away from access by a cop where he had to get sand in his shoes & walk a couple blocks, they wouldn't bother......Try moving away from the pier where a cop can just drive up & see you... . . .& if you don't come out of the water when they say to, they can arrest you for disobeying a police officers orders.......

Master-Baiter · Post by **Master-Baiter** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:31 pm

I am NOT encouraging anyone to break the LBTS laws, or test the validity of fishing below the high tide line.

The best case scenario, as I see it, is that someone would eventually win a small lawsuit or settlement from the city, after years of fighting, lawyer fees, etc. And they would have an arrest record.

The worst case scenarion, arrest and conviction. And remember, the cops can always find a reason to talk to you, and could than arrest you for something such as "Failure to obey a lawful order", resisting, fleeing and eluding, or countless other charges.

This is something I strongly encourage that no one attempt.

Unfortunately, to 'fight' it any other way would be a costly and long drawn out process as well.

There's a saying, "You can't fight City Hall".

For something like this, it would take years and years, cost a small or large fortune, and by the time the issue was resolved, I'll be way too old to fish, and so would many of you.

Nope. I will not tempt fate, and strongly encourage that no one else does either.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

jighead · Post by **jighead** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:42 pm

I was under the impression that all navigable waters 50 feet from "the mean tide" mark belonged to the state and grants access to "every citizen of the state".This applies fresh or salt.The LYKES corp. tried to close off part of the Peace river, the state spanked 'em! My limited experiance with goverment leaves me with this impression, you have to educate them about your (our) constituency! They look at numbers, rich or poor and DO THEY(you)VOTE!!! They don't take kindly to threats,accept with one very powerful one.VOTE FOR THE OTHER GUY!!! Tom,I'm there with you all the way.FYI fellow fishers,our activity generates more $$$$$ for the state then golf. Recreational fishing is actuauly THE #1 leisure revenue generator for the state.Thoughtful planning and professional excecution on our part could make a real difference.