POLL Bailout or Not

[MoJo]

BAILOUT OR NO BAILOUT

My opinion is NO, We cant keep printing phony baloney money to buy ourselves out of bad spots.

Example lets say James380 buys a Pier it goes great, But then one day he makes a bad decision.
Would you expect the US Government to bail him out. HELL NO.

Why should we pay to bail out these predatory companies out of "there mistakes".
Let them die, Let there be havoc in the markets. Let the POOP fall where it may!
They need to go after the CEO'S and prosecute for racketeering or whatever.

This proposed bailout adds up to 30k per taxpayer in debt!

Furthermore if they do purchase all those forclosed homes from the "institutions" they should let HUD house the homeless or something of that nature.

[fishnfool73]

When JAMES's pier employs a 100,000 people or so sure bail it out. I think we need and must bail them out. I feel we need to do it on our terms though. First ''we'' meaning the taxpayers get stock in the company and a share of any profit goes to pay off the debt to the goverment. Second no serverance packages to the idiots that put the companies in debt. If we fail to bail out these companies we will slip further into the black hole that our economy has become .

[Big Daddy]

When JAMES's pier employs a 100,000 people or so sure bail it out. I think we need and must bail them out. I feel we need to do it on our terms though. First ''we'' meaning the taxpayers get stock in the company and a share of any profit goes to pay off the debt to the goverment. Second no serverance packages to the idiots that put the companies in debt. If we fail to bail out these companies we will slip further into the black hole that our economy has become .

I agree.
I'd like to include jail terms for those that took illegal bonuses from FF/FF; AND resignations from Congress of anyone who took money from FF/FF sources.

Where is the outrage that those responsible for oversight of this debacle are now the people demanding they decide how to fix it?

Throw da bums out.

[fishnfool73]

BD sounds good to me.

[MoJo]

When JAMES's pier employs a 100,000 people or so sure bail it out. I think we need and must bail them out. I feel we need to do it on our terms though. First ''we'' meaning the taxpayers get stock in the company and a share of any profit goes to pay off the debt to the goverment. Second no serverance packages to the idiots that put the companies in debt. If we fail to bail out these companies we will slip further into the black hole that our economy has become .

Well my main concern is that "black hole" we are allready trillions in debt so yeah 700 billion compared to that isnt much BUT, We are going to fall into that hole sooner or later. The national debt will have to be paid. And continued bailouts will not pay it.

Bad things are/will happen whether we bail or don't bail, The only difference is when and how bad it will be.

[bolo]

James' pier will charge $7.00 to fish and $5.00 weekdays and $10.00 weekend to park. This is a sure business plan to recover his money. Also, start a rumor about Skunk Ape sightings to attract tourtist, $2.00 to sight see.

[james380]

lol Bolo

My question is where is the money coming from right now. Has our IOU to China just gotten bigger?

[MoJo]

lol Bolo

My question is where is the money coming from right now. Has our IOU to China just gotten bigger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

We owe others more.....
Foreign owners of US Treasury Securities (April 2008)
Nation billions of dollars
Japan 592.2
China, Mainland 502
United Kingdom 251.4
Oil Exporters 153.9
Brazil 149.5
Carib Bnkng Cntrs 115.4
Luxembourg 84.8
Hong Kong 63.1
Russia 60.2
Norway 45.3
Germany 44
Taiwan 42.6
Switzerland 42.5
Korea 40.5
Mexico 38
Singapore 33.3
Turkey 31.1
Thailand 27.9
Canada 24
Ireland 18.5
Netherlands 15.5
Sweden 13.1
Egypt 12.7
Belgium 12.5
Poland 12.5
Italy 10.6
India 10.5
All Other 154.2

Foreign ownership

A traditional defense of the national debt is that Americans "owe the debt to ourselves", but that is increasingly not true. The US debt in the hands of foreign governments is 25% of the total[32], virtually double the 1988 figure of 13%.[33] Despite the declining willingness of foreign investors to continue investing in US-dollar–denominated instruments as the US Dollar has fallen in 2007,[34] the U.S. Treasury statistics indicate that, at the end of 2006, foreigners held 44% of federal debt held by the public.[35] About 66% of that 44% was held by the central banks of other countries, in particular the central banks of Japan and China. In total, lenders from Japan and China held 47% of the foreign-owned debt.[36] This exposure to potential financial or political risk should foreign banks stop buying Treasury securities or start selling them heavily was addressed in a recent report issued by the Bank of International Settlements which stated, "'Foreign investors in U.S. dollar assets have seen big losses measured in dollars, and still bigger ones measured in their own currency. While unlikely, indeed highly improbable for public sector investors, a sudden rush for the exits cannot be ruled out completely." [37]

In 2006, the central banks of Italy, Russia, Sweden, and the United Arab Emirates announced they would reduce their dollar holdings slightly, with Sweden moving from a 90% dollar-based foreign reserve to 85%. [38] On May 20, 2007, Kuwait discontinued pegging its currency exclusively to the dollar, preferring to use the dollar in a basket of currencies.[39] Syria made a similar announcement on June 4, 2007.[40]

A list of the foreign owners of U.S. Treasury securities is listed by the U.S. Treasury:[36]

[james380]

China is the one i'm waiting on to try and collect that IOU.

[CowboyJustin]

When JAMES's pier employs a 100,000 people or so sure bail it out. I think we need and must bail them out. I feel we need to do it on our terms though. First ''we'' meaning the taxpayers get stock in the company and a share of any profit goes to pay off the debt to the goverment. Second no serverance packages to the idiots that put the companies in debt. If we fail to bail out these companies we will slip further into the black hole that our economy has become .

I agree.
I'd like to include jail terms for those that took illegal bonuses from FF/FF; AND resignations from Congress of anyone who took money from FF/FF sources.

Where is the outrage that those responsible for oversight of this debacle are now the people demanding they decide how to fix it?

Throw da bums out.

GOOD luck there...if it doesn't line the republicans pockets, they don't want it...and thats obvious by whats being said on here...we should not bail them out PERIOD!!! And oh yeah....Now the FBI is investigating for fraud...These companies SCREWED themselves, let someone else bail them out!!

[CowboyJustin]

Depression and civil war is inevitable...at the rate we are going...But I'll get told I'm crazy and insane for saying that...but give it 2 or 3 years and see what happens

[fishnfool73]

Yes CBJ here is a simple fact why we should bail out those companies JOBS....That is what those companies offer those of us that work....money to survive. 100,000 plus more unemployed if these companies go under along with the other companies that are both directly and indirectly affected due to business dealings with those companies. It is called a ripple efffect. The goverment should bail them out but hammer the he77 out of thoise running the companies and take back the loan in stocks and future profits.

[james380]

Depression and civil war is inevitable...at the rate we are going...But I'll get told I'm crazy and insane for saying that...but give it 2 or 3 years and see what happens

Woohoo some one nuttier than me. There would have to be a full government(martial law/police state) take over before anything even resembling civil war was thought about.

[fishnfool73]

The South shalll rise again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[james380]

lol ........from my cold dead hands.

I need to start building my arsenal. Is ebay a good place to start? Chris you think you can snag me a vest?

[MoJo]

Never say Never....

Civil war...not likely any time soon.

Civil Unrest yeah most definitely, Big Time best buy the vest.

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition!

[Cookinman]

We have no choice. Bailout.

[fishnfool73]

Watched an interview with Clinton this morning and even he supports the bailout under the conditions of the goverment getting a controlling intrest of said companies along with payback with intrest. He stated that ''we'' made money off of the Chrysler bailout.

[Cookinman]

Watched an interview with Clinton this morning and even he supports the bailout under the conditions of the goverment getting a controlling intrest of said companies along with payback with intrest. He stated that ''we'' made money off of the Chrysler bailout.

I saw that too..... This bailout idea is no different than other companies that buy debt at a low price and try to again sell it later for profit in a better market, except it is on a much bigger scale.

ie: You default on a $1000.00 credit card bill. Visa is out a grand.

They sell the debt to XYZ Collections for .50 on the Dollar. Visa is now not out a grand but 500, so they are a little better off.

XYX makes you an offer to settle your debt for $750.00 Tou save $250.00 XYZ Makes $250.00 Everyone Wins but Visa. But in the Alpha position of this they are besyt equipped to handle losses as their margins are greatest.

This bailout will be somewhat different, but the idea is for the Govt to own an 80% Share in the company then later in a more favorable market, sell the debt little by little to other ( investment ) institutions capable of taking the risk in what many hope will be a more favorable market, to sell for a profit.

It makes much sense from a financial perspective to me, and I do not say that often about this administration's financial choices.

OK, that is the end of my Bi-Partisan Diatribe.
Now - the reality on why this will happen;

1 - It is necessary

2 - We are already fo far in debt, that a couple hundred Billion added on top VS. what we would loose as an economy without it, makes it an easy choice...BUT the Well is getting closer to bottom. Some may say this is Karma's way of FOOKING GWB Back for his impetious decisions early in his first term.....

3 - IF OUR GOVT DID NOT DO A BAILOUT OF OUR OWN INTERESTS, WHILE PUMPING BILLIONS INTO IRAQ W NO FOREABLE END OR RETURN, then my friends, that "imaginary or not" CIVIL WAR would get started much, much quicker.

[james380]

Ron Paul was saying this morning that the bailout would just lengthen the down fall of the economy for ten years. He also said if the bailout didn't happen then the country would be in a hard recession for a year, but would then dig out of it.

Personally i'd rather not see the dollar continue its downward spiral that the bailout would cause.

[bolo]

But I'll get told I'm crazy and insane for saying that

People already think that about you.

[bolo]

Even thou I dont agree in bailing out the financial banks who basicly are crooks. Its still important for our government to do it. Our finanical market will crash and put our ecomony even worst position than it already is. Like Chris said keeping american people their jobs will keep the ecomony going. We as american people should not be tax for their BS and the banks should be fine or punish for it like BD said.

[Cookinman]

With the Federal Govt taking an 80% share of the company, it is less of a bailout and more of a buyout.

Now all they have to do is run it as efficialtly as the Government has been.

[Cookinman]

With the Federal Govt taking an 80% share of the company, it is less of a bailout and more of a buyout.

Now all they have to do is run it as efficialtly as the Government has been.

ALTHOUGH....every day 700B starts to look like too little too late

[Green Tide]

Ron Paul does have a point that the market will correct but I don't know about in 1 year. The bailout is only right if the system of fannie mae and freddie mac is not repeated.
Congress is responsible for the ridiculous loan guidlines that lead to this mess.
Do any of you have a no doc loan? What about a sub prime arm? We were offered those loans many times but always rejected them bc of the cost. The people that got them were not acting responsibly. There was so much nosie being raised of the great american dream bad loans were designed and pushed by congress. The banks were doing what congress wanted them to.
When the housing market started sinking all the bad news started showing up. But if you have cash or good credit this is the best time to buy anything from houses to cars to boats.
Now consider the young couple trying to get into a house after they appreciated over 100% around 2003-2004. They can't afford anything. The existing homeowners have been hit with skyrocketing insurance and property taxes throughout our state.
It's a mess, but if you have stayed within a decent budget for yourself you are still making all your payments while some people are getting bailed out. And that's not right.

[CubanExpress]

I think the bailout will surge another wave of forclosures/repossessions and will bring down lots of families with it.....Shattered Dreams of seeing the United States booming like it was in the 1990s...

The bailout will allow lending out loans continue, since everything is at a freeze... The companys that need these loans, use these loans to operate everday... companys like GM motor co...

GM and lots of other companies use more money to operate than it sees profits on a day to day basis.. they would need a loan to keep operating month per month.. hoping that sometime the economy will rebound and will see a positive gain.. This has been going on for a loooong time, way longer than what you have seen for the last 3 weeks

Right now everything is at a freeze... there is no money that is being lended by the financial giants Freddie Mac - Fannie Mae and others that are looking for this bailout... But by signing the bailout now everthing can continue on an operating basis... by giving the financial companys money to continue there operations - lending out money to keep the world spinning

There is no guarantee that the bailout will make everything good... atleast thats the way I see it

Some say the bailout could cost each household $30,000 << that could be more if the bailout will reach one Trillion dollars

Ok... The United States economy will not fix it self in 4 years.... lets say 6,7,8,9,10,11,12,or maybe even 13 years.. who knows maybe even longer

Lets say it takes 8 years for the economy to turn around <<< Takes 8 years to ruin it = at least 8 years to fix it.

8 years is equal to 96 months

$30,000 bailout money divided by 96 months of payments = $310++ per month per household.... that equals to $3700++ per year increase per houshold

For the families that are barely holding it down to those loans that were purchased during the times of the housing and loans boom..They will for sure go under... a new wave of foreclosures and repossessions... as checking accounts deplete.. your savings accounts are next

If your savings were saved up to put your children through college... forget it... because you might not be able to do it now... since you have to spend your savings to keep you family together...

And what about the millions of people that are currently living paycheck to paycheck across the United States...

During those 8 years.. imagine the increased pricing of products... seeing the increase like we have seen over the course of 4 years but carried out for the next 8 years... forget it... that alone will do it... but wait

thats not it.... now there is an additional $310 per month.... per household on top of the inflation for those 8 years because of the Bailout... Cookinman called it as a Buyout...and I think he is right

They are trying to come up with a plan to give you the taxpayer shares of the company... as the company rebounds with the economy the shares would increase in value... as this happens money comes back at you...

By the time you see the stocks working for you it will be too late..

with the public holding the shares, this is the only way they could do it... because any other way will be considered a Socialism economic system

And in those 8 years lots more will be affected and put into a ruff situation vs the 100,000 plus jobs that "could" be lost... Those 100,000+ jobs that "could" be lost are nation wide... think 2,000 jobs per state...

2,000 jobs lost per state does not look as scary as 100,000 jobs lost as the media and goverment hypes it up to be....

I bet there will be 2 bailouts... one initial $700 billion for the finacial sector...then later on $300 addition billion for the american automakers

$1,000,000,000,000 dollars cash money probably will not even fit into a 18 wheeler semi truck

I feel the bailout will not benefit the United States... My Vote = No Bailout!

Yesterday when G.Bush and represenatives were negotaiting there was almost a physical fight over what someone said... I think it was along the lines of saying no bailout... the companies have insurance that covers them in situations like this... Let the insurance policy pay for it!....and then someone flipped out..

If someone saw or knows what happend please post the info

[CubanExpress]

This would be much more complex, but would benefit the little guy.

Go ahead and buy out the debt that is related to home mortgages only. (basically, the gov't takes over the mortgage) Turn around, and negotiate with the home owners that are driving the issue by foreclosing and renegotiate the loan. Even if it has to be a 50 yr mortgage. Keeping people in their homes AND in their jobs is the only thing that will bring the economy back..

I truly hope you are correct... and this bailout will go down with out a hitch...

[fishnfool73]

I agree with the bailout but with a load of only ifs. Ifs CEO's , Presidents, and board members are terminated or highly watched and regulated by goverment watchdogs. While part of me is anti this as it sounds a lot like the start of socialism I don't want to see the same mistakes repeated and be in the same boat in 20 years or so. Any activatity by these companies needs to be well regulated by a system of checks and balances. As ROB pointed out we are sailing for dark waters as homeowners in this country. I have been preaching that we were living well as a nation well beyond our means. The mindset of Americans has changed in the last 20 years. We went from being people who were ingrained that if you wanted something ie car, biger house, wedding ring that we saved for that item and worked harder for money. Todays mindset is charge it. With Americans being tens of thousands in credit card debt the answer is then when you are swimming in debt and can no longer pay declare bankruptcy or forclosure. When hundreds of thousands of debtors fail to pay back their creditors it creates a ripple effect that destroys our economy. We need to get out of this idea that society has created for us about using credit cards so easily and charging for things we need to save for. Credit card companies need to be regulated to a degree where it is harder for people with no self control and means to payoff their bills to just keep getting further and further into finacial holes thhat will never climb out of . Babysitting yes but it is for the good of our country in the end protect people who are unable to save themselves from themselves.