Anglers and commerical fishermen attacked again

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:28 pm

when is this going to stop !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think you've seen the worst that fishery management bureaucracies can dish out, you're probably going to be proven very wrong.

The South Atlantic Fishery Management Council is meeting this week and next in five coastal cities in the Southeast to outline its plans and solicit input on new management practices meant to "end overfishing" for gag grouper and vermillion snapper in Atlantic waters.

There are several plans on the table, but if you understand SAFMC lingo, you'll know what "preferred alternatives" are. These are often the results of voodoo data, and the majority of the time the preferred alternatives are a foregone conclusion.

Sometime back in 2007, the SAFMC received updated stock assessment information indicating overfishing of gag grouper and vermillion snapper. It is not clear where this data came from or how it was gathered. But, based on this "proof," it has fallen back on the Magnuson-Stevens Reauthorization Act, which it says mandates that it fix the perceived problem within one year. Look up "knee-jerk" in the dictionary.

The bottom line of the "preferred" alternatives as stated by the SAFMC would be punitive for recreational anglers and disastrous for charter and head boat operations on the Eastern seaboard.

One of the first recommendations is a total closure for gag grouper from January to April in all federal waters for both commercial and recreational anglers. But then, almost as a footnote, the SAFMC adds these other species to the closure list: black grouper, red grouper, scamp, red hind, rock hind, yellowmouth grouper, tiger grouper, yellowfin grouper, grasby and coney.

Amendment 16 would also mandate that all anglers, commercial or recreational, use venting tools and dehooking devices, which makes sense. But it would also mandate the use of stainless steel non-offset circle hooks when fishing live or dead bait for grouper or snapper. Most would agree that circle hooks do cut down on fish mortality. But stainless steel hooks can stay imbedded in a fish forever, while others rust out within weeks.

The new rules would also reduce the aggregate daily bag limit for grouper from five to three. It would reduce the bag limit for black grouper from two to one, within the aggregate. And it would outlaw captains or crews on for-hire charter boats from possessing any snapper or grouper.

The SAFMC has also determined that vermillion snapper are being overfished, but it's light on the symptoms and heavy on the cure.

The preferred alternative for vermillions includes a closed season from October to May (yes, that's eight months). It also reduces the bag limits from 10 fish to four.

Bottom fish are rarely a target for catch-and-release fishing for recreational anglers. They're excellent table fare, and that drives the fishery. With the costs of boats, insurance and the recent spike in gas prices, it's tough enough to put together a bottom-fishing trip. The proposed bag limit reductions and closed seasons could very well be a very big nail in the sport-fishing coffin.

And imagine the impact on party boats and charter boats. Would you pay $80 for a head boat trip in order to bring home four small vermillion snapper?

There is also talk of a new Amendment 18 that will "address overfishing" of red snapper working its way to the public. No details yet.

The closest meeting to Jacksonville was in Orlando last week. There are three more next week in Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina.

A news release by the SAFMC says it is accepting written comments on these rules and that details on how to submit written comments will be posted at www.safmc.net.

Try to find it. There is no mechanism to comment online, where the easiest access would naturally be. But a spokeswoman for the SAFMC said Thursday that e-mails to its public information officer would be added to the testimony. That address is kim.iverson@safmc.net.

No thinking angler argues that our stocks of saltwater fish need management. But when 10 percent of the boats get 90 percent of the resource, something's very wrong. And when non-specific data is used to close down thousands of miles of ocean to anglers who spend billions of dollars a year in Florida to bring home a fresh fish dinner, the proposed action seems closer to a crime.

------------ here is the list of fish that will be affected -----------------

and here are links to read all this ...

http://safmc.net/Portals/6/Public%20Com ... 032708.pdf
http://safmc.net/Portals/6/Public%20Com ... 041708.pdf
http://safmc.net/Portals/6/Public%20Com ... 041708.pdf

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:33 pm

First let me say i didnt read your post...Abit long winded for me.

But dare i say this i dont give a c rap if they totaly shut down commercial fishing "nets and such", Im not speaking of commercial sport fishing.

These are the true culprits "thieves" of the ocean. They are why the politicos are knee jerking us "fisherpeople" around. Thats what needs to stop

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:59 pm

maybe you need to read what is posted befor opening your mouth the report that are posted at the bottom show that the ec fishermen are the problem there buck o

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:09 pm

diggin4grouper wrote:maybe you need to read what is posted befor opening your mouth the report that are posted at the bottom show that the ec fishermen are the problem there buck o

Ok ill bite whats an ec fisherman?

Taking back my welcome......

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:27 pm

it was a typo ec = rec fishermen

but if you dont belive me here are the numbers

and that still dont stop people from poaching them all fish come inshore to breed , then the babbies from that stay inshore for 2 to 4 years till they are oldenough to go to the open sea , there in lies the problem the unmature fish is caught by the rec fishermen and 60% of the time are returned to the water but the other 40% that are not of leagal size are kept ( POACHERS) AND THAT IS WERE THE PROBLEM IS !!!!!!!!!!

and then we have people like you that blame everything on commerical guys that have nothing to do with it due to the fact that they have to go off shore to catch theres and are of leagal size . i dont know what you have againt commerical guys but you need to do your homework befor comeing to hasty conclusion

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:33 pm

oh and lets talk about your signature south florida shark club
means you fish for sharks off the piers and beachs correct !

hummm wonder why there are more and more sharks comeing to the beach area to feed ? could it be that your provideing a food sourse for them ! and is that why there are more shark attacks every year !

so ya see it goes both ways

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:36 pm

So prosecute the damn poachers and leave us alone.

I glanced at "your" numbers, If i read and understand them they say rec fishermen are responcible for most of the damage done.

If what i just said is correct then the numbers in my opinion are cr ap false propaganda posted by commercial intrests or politicians lining there pockets with commercial fishing moneys.

Yes hire some more FWC officers and ENFORCE the laws we allready have.

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:37 pm

diggin4grouper wrote:oh and lets talk about your signature south florida shark club
means you fish for sharks off the piers and beachs correct !

hummm wonder why there are more and more sharks comeing to the beach area to feed ? could it be that your provideing a food sourse for them ! and is that why there are more shark attacks every year !

so ya see it goes both ways

LOL now i know your an idiot....Buhhh BYE

james380 · Post by **james380** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:21 pm

lol yaaaaa the shark fishermen are the reason the sharks travel the beaches. Don't mind the migrating baitfish.

snakehead terror · Post by **snakehead terror** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:26 pm

nope its the hooks in the baits that they love... mmmmmmmmm

GO4EM · Post by **GO4EM** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:36 pm

LAIDIES , LAIDIES !!!

Team rebel · Post by **Team rebel** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:52 pm

diggin4grouper wrote:oh and lets talk about your signature south florida shark club
means you fish for sharks off the piers and beachs correct !

hummm wonder why there are more and more sharks comeing to the beach area to feed ? could it be that your provideing a food sourse for them ! and is that why there are more shark attacks every year !

so ya see it goes both ways

get the hell out of here man, we dont need anymore people preaching to us, shartk attacks havent incresed in the past 3 years and the population of people for them from shore has tripled nothing out of the ordinary, and most attacks happen i nthe places where people dont fish them as hard as down here..because there is sooo many shark attacks in broward palm beach mimi dae and monroe right, get lost man

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:04 pm

not preaching to anyone so sorry if the truth hurts and yall dont like hearing it . and if you watch the news they siad that the number of attacks from sharks has been on the rise since 2000 so keep up with the facts

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:25 pm

Didn't I just post something about shark attacks on the shore and what the Research says, Hold on let me find so I can post here.

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:27 pm

Some great info at FWC
Anyways here is an interesting article, I for one know the Sharks are there and so do State officials, kind of hard to argue your own findings.

I hope all read this and take very close note to the last paragraph, We as fisherman need to help by being careful so the Sharks LIVE--- funny how there population is going down and bites up could it really be that more people are swimming and doing more water activities.

http://floridamarine.org/features/view_ ... p?id=12798

Sharing the Water with Sharks:

Awareness and Education are Key
Experts offer tips on sharing state waters with one of the earth’s oldest predators.

Nurse Shark
Photo Credit: (c) Doug Perrine
Every year, millions of tourists and residents visit Florida’s beaches and waterways, and these beaches and waterways will more than likely contain sharks. According to experts, while there are no guaranteed ways to avoid shark attacks, understanding shark behavior could help you make better decisions on when and where to swim.

"It’s very important for people who visit Florida waters to be aware of their surroundings, understand the relative risks, and be educated on various shark issues such as behavior, biology and fisheries," says Brent Winner, scientist for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission’s (FWC) Fish and Wildlife Research Institute (FWRI).

In the over 400 million years that sharks and their ancestors have roamed Florida waters, their role in their environment has changed very little. As the top predator in most marine ecosystems, sharks continue to help maintain balance within each ecosystem they inhabit.

Florida’s diverse shark population includes species that range in size from only a few feet to more than 40 feet in total length. Most of these species feed on fishes or marine invertebrates. Some even feed on plankton, but none see humans as a food source. Experts believe that most shark attacks are cases of mistaken identity, which explains why nearly all shark attacks that occur in Florida waters are of a bite-and-release nature. The percentage of fatal shark attacks has dramatically decreased worldwide: in Florida, shark attacks are fatal only 1% of the time, 10 times less than the current worldwide average.

Many shark species are common in Florida’s nearshore waters and bays. More than 13 species of shark use these areas as nursery grounds for their pups. Scientific data show that many shark species migrate in and out of Florida’s waters each year. These migrations are
Lemon Shark
Photo Credit: (c) Doug Perrine
often linked to temperature and the presence of prey such as mullet, sardines, menhaden, and other species of baitfish. Migrating sharks will either move in an inshore-offshore manner or along latitudinal gradients (e.g., north-south).

In Florida, sharks typically move inshore and north in the spring and summer, and offshore and south in fall and winter months. This pattern explains why shark activity is at its peak in Florida waters during April through October, which coincidentally, is also the time period that humans are more likely to be in the water. Yet shark attacks still remain very rare. Humans are 30 times more likely to be struck by lightning in Florida than to be bitten by a shark. Experts agree that the increase in the number of shark attacks in recent years is more related to an increase in human visitors than to an increase in shark populations or activity.

Humans are much more of a danger to sharks than vice versa. On average worldwide, fewer than 10 people die from shark attacks each year; however, the world’s fisheries kill an estimated 100 million sharks annually. The general biology and life history of most shark species make them extremely vulnerable to overfishing, which is why federal and state regulations protect these valuable resources. Some data show that shark populations are at 20%–30% of the level they were just 25 years ago. To ensure our own safety and the continued existence of these fascinating fishes, people need to become more aware of sharks and more educated about sharks and related issues.

Team rebel · Post by **Team rebel** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:32 pm

shark attack filefor florida from 2000-2007

2000-37
2001-34
2002-29
2003-30
2004-12
2005-20
2006-23
2007-32

numbers dropping dramatically in broward, palm beach , miami dade and monroe counties, the three attacks in broward and palm beach this year, one kid stuck his hand in a sharks mouth and two dove onto nurse sharks underwater and they latched on and zero in miami dade and two divers killed in monroe...looks like we have a SERIOUS problem on our hands...

j/w what was your grouper and vermillion population doing between 2000-2003 when attacks where on a slight increase and shark fishing was almost non existant?

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/st ... tatsus.htm

Team rebel · Post by **Team rebel** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:38 pm

james380 wrote:lol yaaaaa the shark fishermen are the reason the sharks travel the beaches. Don't mind the migrating baitfish.

great points made by tommy and james.....and let me tell you and any seasoned sharker wil ltel lyou, if you actually have a clue what you are looking for you can walk out on any beach here any given day even if nobody has shark fished near it for years and you will ususally at LEAST see one shark just swimmin, they are ALWAYS THERE and arent going to leave... on the piers for years we caught hundreds of monster sharks specifically off deerfield and i have neevr even heard of an attack there, 4-500lb fish big and small we caught them all right by swimmers..theres no stats to prove any claim you may have. increase in bathers and ididots swimming in muddy waters ususally during the friggin mullet un. you know as much about this shark thing as most of us do your grouper, but you just went to the wrong subject in the wrong place

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:46 pm

Ok now that I said that.

About the stats that i see up above for Recs and Comm.

Those stats are they federal waters and what i got was the change would be to federal waters, did I read something wrong?

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

BoatlessFisherman

no the numbers i posted are for both state and federal . thats the only reason i posted them here but i know that there are going to be some in the bunch that are blameing all commerical fishermen for everything. but the point of this wansnt to get in to it with them but i did and i shouldnt have , but i still thought that yall might like to know about it instead of it hitting yall like a brick when the changes take effect on jan 1st 2009

people like rebel and mojo just dont understand whats going on and might not even care , but if this is passed there will be more and more poaching than ever befor , and as far as hireing more fwc officers there is no money for it . plus the fact that if you were a decent person you would help police the rules instead of acting with them !!!!

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:45 pm

and rebel the numbers that you posted prove my point from 2004 they have been on the rise so i thank you for proveing my point

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:54 pm

[quote="diggin4grouper"]and rebel the numbers that you posted prove my point from 2004 they have been on the rise so i thank you for proveing my point

I find it intresting that you choose to use your starting date as 2004 rather than 2000
2000-37
2001-34
2002-29
2003-30
2004-12
2005-20
2006-23
2007-32

I can see you will twist it anyway that will fit your agenda....So im off to take a pill and chill.

Ill leave you to your political action group$$

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:00 pm

No worries Diggin4grouper

They are entitled to there opinion as you are.

Those numbers seem a little inflated for recs.

Has this passed or is this on the table?

Now I will agree that Rec fishers help to deplete the young I see it often in the keys on the bridges.

I believe the stats are 20 fisherpeople and one owns a boat in Florida in that 20.

But when it comes to fishing from a boat most have no clue so I don't think the recs on the water are doing to much damage, yes Landbased fishers that ignore the regulations are hurting the fish that will give baby's later and that is what this site is about helping to educate the people who do not take the time to learn the rules.

Commercial fishing has hurt the shoreline in the past and still has a large impact and yes anyone with a little intellect understands that they have alot of money backing them and pushing for changes that benefits them just look at there lobbyists in Tallahassee. I am not saying they are all the problems but I wish they only could work three miles out and further and allow the commercial little guy without a boat work the shore, the price for sale would be greater and the little guy would do very well as back many years ago. I have had a commercial license from the first day I bought one years and years ago and used to run the coast in my van and it was worth it not anymore.

As for more Officers it would help and I am for all fisherpeople being required to have a Florida license, YES land based Saltwater fisherpeople this would generate a huge amount of money but would the State do the right thing with it that is my question.

I am glad you posted this it is of importance to all of us, maybe you should also post in the environment section and keep it up to date with any and all changes so people can at least read but I think many will get involved in there way, Thanks Diggin4groupers

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:05 pm

Diggin4grouper
I am aware of that map and the Volusia has always been high and it has been shown through research and they figured out that a food source lacks in that area, as for palm beach more swimmers check the tourist stats for all those years you will find they grew alot.

Sharks live on the beaches of Florida and I will gladly take you shark watching.

Team rebel · Post by **Team rebel** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:09 pm

diggin4grouper wrote:BoatlessFisherman

no the numbers i posted are for both state and federal . thats the only reason i posted them here but i know that there are going to be some in the bunch that are blameing all commerical fishermen for everything. but the point of this wansnt to get in to it with them but i did and i shouldnt have , but i still thought that yall might like to know about it instead of it hitting yall like a brick when the changes take effect on jan 1st 2009

people like rebel and mojo just dont understand whats going on and might not even care , but if this is passed there will be more and more poaching than ever befor , and as far as hireing more fwc officers there is no money for it . plus the fact that if you were a decent person you would help police the rules instead of acting with them !!!!

you dont need to tell me anything in the next few months i will be going to school to be and FWC officer. the reality of it is just as rising gas prices we cant do anything about it. given most of these species i dont even care to target, i am not a big fish eater i am in it for a brawl so therefore i dont see it as you do. i would have been more than happy to read this with an open mind but there was a stab taken and there is a ton of people on here that if they knew what was going on on this thread would be here promtply to back that up, that was a claim backed by no science unlike the grouper thing. and personally i take offense to people attacking a VERY SMALL group of fisherman in the state of florida and trying to blame a problem on them when in fact it may actually be the end of our sport if people ge tthe same perception as you do, we are already in jeporady because people just dont like the word "shark". when on ANY given day on a weekend how many peopel are out targeting species like grouper on the east coast of florida? thousands upon thousands where as i dont think the number of avid shark fisherman in this state public or private exceeds 5-600 people on a good year and thats double the number from 3-4 years ago, the sport was almost dead. when people like you look past the actual facts of whats going on instead of a color coded chart posted on a website and actually know how the attacks took place..which i think you should go to sharkattackfile.com and see how all the attacks in the past 3 years from palm beach south occured, the few there were were all provoked attacks by people who nonetheless desvered to get bit just like the three in those 5 counties last year year after year all the attacks are in the same region and its not a heavily fished region, muddy water and poor food conditions perptually there and a GIANT tourist population in daytone/smyrna area thats where it all happens

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:54 pm

Team rebel

you dont need to tell me anything in the next few months i will be going to school to be and FWC officer

i wish you all the best with your new job . just keep an open mind at it .

given most of these species i dont even care to target, i am not a big fish eater i am in it for a brawl so therefore i dont see it as you do

what he or she likes to catch is there own thing .

i would have been more than happy to read this with an open mind but there was a stab taken and there is a ton of people on here that if they knew what was going on on this thread would be here promtply to back that up, that was a claim backed by no science unlike the grouper thing. and personally i take offense to people attacking a VERY SMALL group of fisherman in the state of florida and trying to blame a problem on them when in fact it may actually be the end of our sport if people ge tthe same perception as you do, we are already in jeporady because people just dont like the word "shark".

ok frist , the attacks started from mojo

First let me say i didnt read your post...Abit long winded for me.

But dare i say this i dont give a c rap if they totaly shut down commercial fishing "nets and such", Im not speaking of commercial sport fishing.

These are the true culprits "thieves" of the ocean. They are why the politicos are knee jerking us "fisherpeople" around. Thats what needs to stop

people like that are followers and not doers , what i mean by that is that he follows all the trash that is put out ther by sport fishing saying that commerical fishing is destroying our fishing . which isnt true . all the regs and quotas they have put on commerical guys have done nothing but make the goverment relize that the problem they have been trying to fix hasnt changed . and now they have found out that the problem didnt come from the commerical guys . and that the problem is that the juveanile fish that are in shallow protected waters are not makeing it to a muture fish and not being able to head to open ocean . commircal guys have to go off shore 12 to 400 and get there fish due to so many sporties have cryied wolf and this is what is being the new rules . and as yall have seen in the past what ever they do to federal waters the state soon follows .

when on ANY given day on a weekend how many peopel are out targeting species like grouper on the east coast of florida? thousands upon thousands

your right about that ! thats part of floridas pasttime and it is now in jepordy ! from the thousands of unlicenced charter boats to the ones who follow the laws and regs and to the little guys that fish just for the hell of fishing and something to do ....

yall still want your red lobster , long john silvers , seafood market , and being able to go by seafood at the super market but yet yall complain and gripe till we have to depend on over seas food to support our selfs good grief get real ... next time your in wal mart , windixe , publix , ect ...

ask where there sea food is from . buy american have some pride

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:26 am

ok frist , the attacks started from mojo
Quote:
First let me say i didnt read your post...Abit long winded for me.

But dare i say this i dont give a c rap if they totaly shut down commercial fishing "nets and such", Im not speaking of commercial sport fishing.

These are the true culprits "thieves" of the ocean. They are why the politicos are knee jerking us "fisherpeople" around. Thats what needs to stop

Ummm mr english teacher that is MY OPINION,- NOT AN ATTACK.

But if your a commercial fisherman then i can see how you would precieve it as such.

I also believe your "science/facts" are manipulated "by pac's".

The attack actualy started here with this lovely post!

diggin4grouper wrote:maybe you need to read what is posted befor opening your mouth the report that are posted at the bottom show that the ec fishermen are the problem there buck o

diggin4grouper · Post by **diggin4grouper** » Tue May 20, 2008 1:32 pm

I also believe your "science/facts" are manipulated "by pac's".

you are such an idiot , the fact are not manipulated , they were produced by NOAA's National Marine Fisheries Service ,South Atlantic Fishery Management Council,Southeast Data, Assessment, and Review ,Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission ,and a few others ..... so think what ya want and play in your own little world .

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Tue May 20, 2008 1:41 pm

Im just going to leave you to your world....Mabey Jesus can help you find yourself?

EDIT: Im thinking Frayedknot?

xtheline · Post by **xtheline** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:38 pm

Here's a fact thats hard to ignore. Recreational fishing now generates more money. income, goods sold and jobs than commercial fishing. Money influences legislation and that would make me wonder about the future if I were a commercial fisherman. Couple this with the fact that aquaculture is poised to make some super strides in the next decade and it looks like the commercial fishing industry's playing field will be changing drastically. Not taking sides, just dropping $.02.