Gun Control talks

[crashmister]

Well, let's be honest here, if the Clinton ban had been renewed, Lanza would not have had a Bushmaster!

The 1994 federal ban, signed by President Clinton, outlawed 19 types of military-style assault weapons. A clause directed that the ban expire unless Congress specifically reauthorized it, which it did not.

Connecticut passed its own law in 1993. It defined assault weapons and listed semiautomatic firearms that were illegal to sell, transport or possess in the state. It banned future sales of 63 types of military style weapons. The state law also banned someone from using a combination of parts to convert a firearm into an assault weapon.
The Connecticut AWB (which is stricter than the Clinton AWB) is still Law in the state.

All true! However, Nancy Lanza was a registered "Collector" and all her gun's including the Bushmaster adam used, were legally registered.
It's all a moot point, nobody has enough balls to do anything about it. I'd be real surprised if anything passed.
I guess 20 dead kid's don't deserve a vote. I just hope to god the next nut goes postal in NRA headquarters.

[Northwoods]

The other kids that die from countless causes every year don't matter because they were not on TV, so they couldn't make us feel bad. I guess the only way people would care about them is if the media were to glorify their killers. The Sandy Hook deal went down and everyone that strapped themselves to the slow action car wreck needed to find a fix that they could get behind with torches and pitchforks. It is much easier to go after an inanimate object than it is the actual problem.

[ikaika]

All true! However, Nancy Lanza was a registered "Collector" and all her gun's including the Bushmaster adam used, were legally registered.
It's all a moot point, nobody has enough balls to do anything about it. I'd be real surprised if anything passed.
I guess 20 dead kid's don't deserve a vote. I just hope to god the next nut goes postal in NRA headquarters.

the Bushmaster rifle in "her collection" satisfied the existing connecticut ban configurations which is far more difficult to satisfy than the Clinton AWB.

I don't think a nutball would stand a chance at NRA Head Quarters much less get past the gatehouse.

Why do 20 dead white kids deserve a vote, but the 500+ people that get murdered every year in your beloved Chitcago don't even get and iota of law enforcement?

I'm sorry if gun control works, I have a housing project in Trenton I'd like to sell you.

[Northwoods]

I think I have made my stance on this pretty clear, but I think there is one thing that needs to be addressed, and I can't think of a way around it other than universal registration, which I don't support. How do we stop straw buyers? I bought a pistol from Chucks in Dolton, and in my opinion, the guy could care less if he sells fifty guns to the same Chicago hood rat in a month. Yes the bangers will get guns someway, but how do the police stop the straw buyers from making their weekly deliveries?

[gruntking]

i think we should outlaw anything sharp an pointy guns forks knives the whole nine

[crashmister]

Boy Obama had a fit!! the poor misguided baby didn't get his way and blame
everybody about lying

His own party didn't want anything to do with it... but he calls out the NRA and GOP
go figure...

This is what I don't get they spend all kinds of $$$$ getting behind this bill but won't
talk about how to stop "School shooting" they don't want Armed guards but believe
that New laws (words written on paper) will stop Crazy people from doing harm to other.

The real lie that they wont tell you is> if the bill was in place before the Conn shooting
it wouldn't have stopped Chit!!

Well, over 90% of America didn't get their way on this one Jetty. And yeah he's pissed, but more because the pugs in congress and the gun lobby lied about the bill to kill it. They now have a huge problem, the fact checkers are debunking their lies as we speak, and they made it very clear they are more concerned about what the NRA wants than what over 90% of the country want's. They may well have handed Congress and the Senate to the dem's in the 2014 midterm. Not like it hasn't happened before. Dem's took control under Ike and held it till Clinton, that's 8 presidents. Take a wild guess why? If you said they ignored the people in favor of big business, that's one version, but the one with the most evidence to back it up. It's impossible to say if this legislation or any legislation would have prevented anything. All they have to do is make people believe it would and they're through. I can't believe they didn't see this coming and plan accordingly. Could very well be part of the plan to take back congress and get control of the senate. His budget is a good example of that same thing. If it works, kiss your toy's goodbye!

[crashmister]

Once again Jetty you're way off.

4 Democrats voted against the bill, Max Baucus, Mark Begich, Mark Pryor, and Heidi Heitkamp.
4 republicans, McCain, Toomy, kirk. and Collins voted for the bill.

How you ask? MONEY + FEAR = NO vote!
NRA spent 500k on Wednesday alone but it's estimated that between 200 & 500 million have been spent in the last 4 months by the gun lobby in general, funding one of the largest disinformation campaigns in history. Yeah, they spent a fortune lying about the bill.
And the polls you choose not to believe were done by both sides.
In the end, there are a few factors to consider. One of which is the lopsided nature of the senate. For example, Cal. has 38 million people and 2 senators. Montana has less than a million but also has 2 senators.
Also did a little research on the NRA disinformation campaign, Turns out the Australian gun ban was a huge success. Before the AW ban, Australia had 13 mass shooting's in 15 years. in the 17 years since the ban, they have had 0. Across the board crime has dropped as has suicide. Fact is it came down to politics. To many senators were afraid of being primaried. Simple as that. They were to busy trying to keep their jobs to do their jobs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/opini ... n-too.html

[PhishingPhanatic]

Here is an interesting statistic, from either side of the debate...

In January of this year there were 44 gun homicides in Chicago, according to the National Journal. In all of 2011, there were 40 gun homicides in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont combined.

The political pressure from a senator from Illinois to pass the bill is obviously going to be much higher then it is from a state like one of these that isn't plagued by inner city gun violence.

Like it or not, that is how the Senate works. Equal representation from each state, and there are a hell of a lot of "red" states where guns and hunting are a way of life, and these Senator's political futures are in trouble if they back the bill.

[Northwoods]

The 90% figure was from a poll taken by The Washington Post. Both parties play the bad statistics game, and that is what is being done with this utterly invalid 90% number. If the poll was taken strictly through the paper, it would be skewed right there simply because the majority of subscribers are left leaning.
I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be some tweaks here and there with gun laws, but if we are going to discuss any of this, lets have a discussion based in fact, not emotion and propaganda.

[crashmister]

North, I've seen polls as high as 96% of high school students favor gun registration. The Polls that were used to get the 90% # were Pew, ABC News/ and the Washington post. The highest of which, 93% were gun households. There have been dozens if not hundreds of polls done on this subject. The trend shows a change in favor of registration that's overwhelming. Just about everything they used to kill the bill was hypothetical, speculative, and just plain made up.
They said
"It'll lead to a national gun registry", even though the legislation specifically prohibits one.
"It violates my second amendment rights", spare me.
"They'll use it to come take my gun's", 300 million guns, 3 million police & military, do the math.
"It'll lead to illegal information sharing", Again, prohibited.
There was a mental health clause in the legislation. Proved to be to overreaching for republicans.

Look, it's simple, The "Gun lobby" spent a fortune broadcasting these and other myths from any soap box who'd have em. Cruse's entire argument was about either circumstances the bill specifically prohibited, or a non existent 2nd amendment violation that had already been proven not to be a violation. (The previous ban as decided by the supreme court) As was the case by most on the right. The left and their lobby spent about 1/2 of that with their propaganda. Had they kept the 90's momentum, they would have won.
Thanks in no small part to money from gun manufacturers, and to the skill of people like chief NRA lobbyist Grover Nordquist who by the way, not only made millions off the gun sales, he also made a fortune fighting registration. Same guy who won't let republicans raise taxes. 4 months of money and mouths and they changed the dynamic which changed the polling just before the vote, "Only 74 % of people supported background checks, the rest bought the BS. The rest is just focused polling. Just like the polling they did that had romy winning by a landslide. Then looked like idiots when OB won early. I'll say this, next mass shooting will be a real political problem for some.

[Northwoods]

Problem with all that information is that it's not an attractive sound-byte for a news station since it won't evoke strong enough emotions.

[ringonose]

This is an older post, one that I have argued with jetty and took the other side. Well, the reason I am responding again is because I've have a serious change of heart. Last December 27th my wife and I had our first child, an amazing bouncing baby boy, Eren. What can I say, I'm so much in love with the little guy I can't think straight sometimes. My first kid! Well, I travel for a living, and so I have leave my wife and baby alone a lot. Many times I have called home and gotten no answer, on one occasion my wife answered and she was in a panic over something (ended up being nothing big). BUT, my mind always raced to think the worst. So I'm thinking to myself, in south Florida, where I have seen stiffs lying in the supermarket/MacDonalds parking lot, shot over a drug deal gone bad, how difficult would it be for someone with a gun to get into my neighborhood and gain access into my home? Even worse, get in when I am not home? Or when I AM home, and unable to defend myself? What if we're out fishing somewhere and some nut head with a gun or a knife decides he wants to follow my wife and kid to the car to have his way with them, while I have my back turned? The ONLY defense here is to own a firearm, and know how to operate it. I've made this decision because I want to feel safe. Jetty is right, even with the most stringent gun laws, even with all the enforcement in the world, there will always be the danger and possibility of people owning guns in an illegal way. The only way to protect oneself, and in my case I am only thinking of my family, is to have the proper protection. Just having something nearby in the night table or in the house is an added confidence booster, added peace and added comfort that one has a last resort to protect oneself from those who mis use firearms for evil purposes. I have a kid now, my wife and kid are alone a lot of the time. I will sleep much better when I am away after my wife takes some training, and has something nearby to protect her, only IF she ever needs it. Mind you, I'm not sure we will ever need automatic military grade rapid fire guns that can clean out an entire football team in one go. So there will always be a debate here. But at least I see the other perspective now. Take away one's right to own firearms in today's society, and you're taking away one's right to defend themselves..
Peace and Love everyone.

Not trying to be a kill joy.... but why does the number 20 dead or kids mean anything,
other then it being a emotion button to hit with people upside the head...

Do you realize how many kids (non-white) die last yr from gun related crimes... where
in some case they just happen to be in the wrong place... NO YOU wont hear about
those numbers... because for most of the cases they happen in "Cities" with strict gun
laws... but noooooo lets not talk about those kids

I'm kinda of shock that you blame the NRA over this whole gun issue... You keep side
stepping my main POINT... Crazy people aren't going to give a DAMN about new gun
laws/background checks... and that's a mayor point you and others seem to forget...

You bitXh about the NRA but at least they are telling like it is... ARMED OUR SCHOOLS!!!!
Enough is enough quit show boating and hollering about what laws and what firearms
are AW and freaking get off your azzes and start protecting our schools...

That's the first thing that should be on the BOOKS... I don't hear nobody on the left
bitxhing about that... oh they/YOU and others will say.. Where will the money come
from

Are people that freaking clueless... just like anything in life people will find a way to get the
money... cut foreign aid/ quit Doing STUPID azz studies... quit building paving/roads that
lead to no where...

It just ticks me off when people whine about Gun control and school shooting but ask
for money for guards and they have all kinds of reason why that cant be done

Crash> I said this before.. pass all the freaking laws you want.. that still isn't going to
stop the next Conn copycat shooter... they are out there and that's also a proven
statement... go check the FBI stats and they say it isn't a matter of it happening...
its a matter of When....

Those 20 kids didn't need no freaking votes... they needed somebody to be there to
at least has given them a fighting chance.... all this BS talking about passing new BS
laws isn't going to do chit.... hell if you want to blame the NRA... then I will blame our
stinking government for not stepping up to the plates yrs ago...

[swordfish]

Brother, you both hit the nail in the head. I pray to God, every day, that I NEVER have to draw on anyone, that I NEVER find myself in the situation where I HAVE to pull the trigger to protect myself or my family from great bodily harm or death. However, that being said, I will exercise my 2nd amendment right, simply because I'd rather have it and NEVER need it than NEED it and NOT have it. That being said, unfortunately, the reality is simple, gun control laws MOSTLY keep guns away from law abiding citizens who would ONLY use them to protect themselves for those who mean them harm. Criminals whom are the ones supposedly that gun laws AIM to stop from owning weapons NEVER buy said weapons through LEGAL means. Its simply black and white, plain in sight, I don't understand why we still debate this, it is irrational not to see it. Just my .01 cent (sorry, I can only give one, the government furloughed me)

-Swordfish