Snakehead roundup 9-18-2011

[Bluefish in ny]

The decline of the quality of bass fishing, that people seem to be complaining about, has more to do with environmental reasons than anything else. That includes pollution, development and altering the course of the Everglades.

Agree..... AND... Its the spread of the other exotics... Mayan cichlids that has put a damper on largemouth bass populations. HENCE THE REASON WHY THE STATE INTRODUCED PEACOCK bass.... To control the spread of them (mayan).... ((((sigh))))... I remember way back when (back in Bonaventure/Weston) in the early 80's.... Id walk up to ANY body of water out that way... Toss in a piece of bread, and within seconds.. literally seconds.. There would be native bluegill swarming it.... GOOD SIZED ones as well.... And within minutes, you'd have nice bass waiting for one to act the fool....

With that said.... I dont think snakeheads have anything to do with the above declining.

[JustTVH]

I still want to see photos of the total destruction and carnage..

What happened to the dead fish's ?

I remember years ago a B&T shop used to have catch and kill SnakeHead tournaments, forget which one.

See the video. As well the majority of the fish were given away for people to eat. As wellt hey did have some snakehead saples there to try which I did not. FWC was on site and taking recordings of all fish caught. As per the FWC on scene. If you catch them DO NOt re-release them. Kill them on site, take them home to eat or take them home and dispose of them properly i.e. put them in your garbage. DO NOT leave them on the bank.

[Bionic]

Nope the two work hand and hand
http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/regu ... d-snapper/
but again not valid in this discussion just pointing out that FWC has its own agenda and can hardly be called the final answer to a discussion. I agree if you aren't going to eat it or use it for bait let it go except for needlefish and skipjacks.

I don't see an agenda regarding the snakehead issue. Analysing the contents of their stomachs and reporting it is stating facts, nothing more. This is the info we have on the topic of snakeheads in South Florida. I will take the word of a biologist over media hype spread by a reactive, uninformed group of people any day. I also catch a ton of nice bass in the same waters that snakeheads inhabit. The decline of the quality of bass fishing, that people seem to be complaining about, has more to do with environmental reasons than anything else. That includes pollution, development and altering the course of the Everglades.

Ridgehand the agenda I was referring to is NMFS desire to make no fish zones, unrealistic bag limits for recreational anglers and total closures. The hand in hand reference that fishnfool73 made was because (I believe) is the FWC decided to adopt the NMFS rulings to create a "uniformed" regulations, hence FWC being in sync with their agenda. (could be wrong...have to ask fishnfool73)

As far as the facts that I posted were from the non native species department who's main purpose is to study obviously non native species and there effect in Florida.

[Bionic]

I still want to see photos of the total destruction and carnage..

What happened to the dead fish's ?

I remember years ago a B&T shop used to have catch and kill SnakeHead tournaments, forget which one.

See the video. As well the majority of the fish were given away for people to eat. As wellt hey did have some snakehead saples there to try which I did not. FWC was on site and taking recordings of all fish caught. As per the FWC on scene. If you catch them DO NOt re-release them. Kill them on site, take them home to eat or take them home and dispose of them properly i.e. put them in your garbage. DO NOT leave them on the bank.

wilsontint, saw the video, shane did a pretty good job (except at gaffing ). I still do not agree with the kill tournament (any of them really) or simply killing a species especially since other exotics have been introduced on purpose and had adverse effects. Plus there is a ton of misinformation on snakeheads, hell they can't even get the species right. There are three different species established in the US. Of course our great media give stats for the Giant Snakehead and that's not even one of the species established here. If it were you would DEFINATELY!!!!! know it. As far as the FWC saying do not release, yes that is what they would prefer (of course the same is true for mayan's, oscars, and most other ciclids besides Peacocks, but the true is by law you do not have to kill any animal. You do however have to release them immediately back into the water where caught, as if in never happened. Transporting them is "illegal". So is using ciclids or other nonidiginous species. brought from another waterway. Ok enough of my soapbox...back to work

P.S.
I live by one man's trash is another man's treasure. I find the snakehead to be a far better sportfish then bass and enjoy them more.

[Ridgehand]

Nope the two work hand and hand
http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/regu ... d-snapper/
but again not valid in this discussion just pointing out that FWC has its own agenda and can hardly be called the final answer to a discussion. I agree if you aren't going to eat it or use it for bait let it go except for needlefish and skipjacks.

I don't see an agenda regarding the snakehead issue. Analysing the contents of their stomachs and reporting it is stating facts, nothing more. This is the info we have on the topic of snakeheads in South Florida. I will take the word of a biologist over media hype spread by a reactive, uninformed group of people any day. I also catch a ton of nice bass in the same waters that snakeheads inhabit. The decline of the quality of bass fishing, that people seem to be complaining about, has more to do with environmental reasons than anything else. That includes pollution, development and altering the course of the Everglades.

Ridgehand the agenda I was referring to is NMFS desire to make no fish zones, unrealistic bag
limits for recreational anglers and total closures. The hand in hand reference that fishnfool73 made was because (I believe) is the FWC decided to adopt the NMFS rulings to create a "uniformed" regulations, hence FWC being in sync with their agenda. (could be wrong...have to ask fishnfool73)

As far as the facts that I posted were from the non native species department who's main purpose is to study obviously non native species and there effect in Florida.

What I was getting at is an unpopular and unreasonable agenda for one particular situation does not nullify the FWC's relevance or its entire body of research. Which is the point fishnfool73 was trying to make. Oh yeah, I whole heartedly agree that snakeheads are closest thing we have to a true freshwater big game fish. Peacocks are amazing and largemouth are fun, but a large snakehead is awe inspiring. Deny it if they will, but even the haters chuckle and hoot when they hook into one. We gotta meet up one day for some snakeheading.

[fishnfool73]

So let me get this straight when FWC researchers tell you to kill all the snakeheads if you catch them since they are invasive you say tell them to go pound sand yet you stand behind their other research intresting.

So you think that snakeheads being a predator fish introduced into the enviorment that largemouths live and feed on at least some of the same prey items yet has no impact on largemouths ? So that gives largemouths 2 additional apex predators to contend with both introduced. It would be like introducing tigers and lions to the Rocky Mountains in wolf territory. I realize that snakeheads are here to stay and one day if I am really bored I might actually go try to catch one.

[Ridgehand]

So let me get this straight when FWC researchers tell you to kill all the snakeheads if you catch them since they are invasive you say tell them to go pound sand yet you stand behind their other research intresting.

So you think that snakeheads being a predator fish introduced into the enviorment that largemouths live and feed on at least some of the same prey items yet has no impact on largemouths ? So that gives largemouths 2 additional apex predators to contend with both introduced. It would be like introducing tigers and lions to the Rocky Mountains in wolf territory. I realize that snakeheads are here to stay and one day if I am really bored I might actually go try to catch one.

What you are referring to is a moral dilemma which has nothing to do with scientific fact. I can choose not kill an animal, which can't be legally enforced, but may look at hard research to formulate an informed opinion. Anyway, the FWC now says that you do not have to kill them so there goes that argument. However, you may not possess a live snakehead or transport them to another body of water. Comparing the introduction of tigers and lions to wolf territory is not apples to apples. One difference being that baby snakeheads give largemouth & peacock bass another abundant and important food source, whereas, tigers and lions would not provide the same for wolves. As a result, snakeheads have now become an important part of the eco-system. Like it or not, remove them and you will negatively affect all other fish that depend on that food source. Snakeheads main prey item isn't even largemouth or peacock bass which are mainly piscivores. Snakeheads have more of an omnivorous diet. Getting back to the FWC's findings, the main content of snakehead stomaches yielded a limited amount of largemouths and peacock bass. Yet, largemouth and peacock bass stomachs contained a fair amount of baby snakeheads. Catching a snakehead will definitely get you out of your boredom.

[Bionic]

Ridgehand PM me and will work something out.

Fishnfool73 I always tell "the Man" to go pound sand...I'm a god damn rebel
Just messing with you. I like a good debate. I also say I always kill my limit of bass when I fish....just cause it rattles some of my LMB is king friends. People have the right to do things that are within the legal limits and if they choose to kill snakeheads that is their choice. I just hate when people do so without actually looking at all aspects and facts of the stituation and yes I use the term unwashed masses. I could have said lemmings. I have a distaste for wilsontint mainly because of what he has posted in the past about how he has gone about certain things, but that does not mean if we met and the subject of snakeheads did not come up we might actually agree on other issues and even share similar views. I look at things differently then some and hey that's just life. I will however say that I like to gather up as much information on what it is so when debates like this come up I have a reasonable and informed base to which I can state my case. In the end it's all just people being people. (Oh on a side note I am actually slightly retard...so he was kind of right )

[Ridgehand]

Well said Bionic, I'll PM you. Thanks for the good conversation people. Have a safe one.

[danb]

Hey All,

My name is Dan and I am the director of the Snakehead Round Up's here in South Florida. Interesting discussion thread. We do these to keep people informed, we promote the edibility of the fish, and discourage the needless killing of them. We tell the guys fishing the Round Up to keep them iced since we take some and we also have other people that are not so good at catching them to come and grab what they want. We are not about the needless killing of snakeheads but really there is no difference in guys keeping these fish for dinner just like any other fish this one just has rules by FWC that is is illegal to posses and or transport live and we stress this on our fliers and in the morning before letting anyone go. We would not want to see anyone get fined for possession, and FWC freshwater regulations page 13 under Release/movement of fish it clearly states that non-native fish must not be returned to the water, so yes releasing snakeheads is against the law even back in the water you caught them in.

We will keep doing Snakehead Round Up's, this is not just a top predator but one that has the potential to occupy and take over every body of water in Florida if left unchecked, and not tracked.

To those that think the snakehead is beneficial well I know where read that but the guy is retired and did not know what he was writing since there was not enough research done to back up his comments then. We can not wipe them out and they are here to stay but I tell you what we can keep the population under control with proper management, and that means open season with no limits they bread more and grow faster than any native species we have.

I did not join to argue with anyone just to state what we do so there is no speculation on what we are doing, and trust me I know way to much about the regulations and snakeheads than I or anyone on this forum would want to know.

[migs24]

Thanks for the post danb. Never did a round a up because I never aimlessly kill anything and didn't know what was done with the dead snakeheads. Controlling the numbers and consuming them, I agree with. Wasteful killing, ehhh not so much.... I'm a firm believer of karma and enjoy catching fish maybe next year I'll do one and meet some of the peeps. Met Steve Papp, awesome guy and he can catch some bass... Really big bass. Thanks again for the post.

[Ridgehand]

Well said Dan. Thanks for being a voice of reason. Snakeheads should be kept in check just like any other animal species. That's the way nature intended it. I just dislike the fact that some guys get a kick out of killing them in very inhumane ways. Like cutting their jaws off. I don't believe that exotic species should be released in a foreign eco-system. But I do feel strongly about educating yourself and not letting hype and hysteria guide your behavior. It's great that you can get a bunch of guys together for some fun. I especially get a kick out of Capt. Shane, he truly loves his work which is a rare thing. I'm gonna have to check out your frogs, they look like they work great! Tight lines.

[danb]

I am glad you guys understand, actually the fastest way to kill a snakehead is to use unfiltered tap water from your hose, which I thought was very interesting when I did it. These fish need good water quality to survive so I would not worry about eating these fish, all the modern pesticides, fertilizers are biodegradable so no need to worry about those, and since they eat everything that moves and are not primary fish feeders the mercury levels are extremely low compared to any other fish. It's funny talking to guys that will eat a king fish they caught off the stink holes that was swimming in sewage but they will not eat a snakehead that was in a canal. If you have not tried snakehead you are really missing out, mild pure white meat that takes to any flavor you give it, blackened is just out of this world, but do not believe me you have to try it.

[Bionic]

Dan pretty good write up. At least you bring something with you. I do disagree on a few points. The main one

FWC freshwater regulations page 13 under Release/movement of fish it clearly states that non-native fish must not be returned to the water, so yes releasing snakeheads is against the law even back in the water you caught them in.

That is not 100% true. They want you to not release them, but can't force you to kill them.
Basically it's the no harm no foul. If you release immediately back into the spot it's like you never caught it. Now if you decide to put it in your livewell and move to a different spot, you just broke the law.

I will say that yes to catch and eat is a different story. Your round up donates to food banks, all good. I have kept a few for friends who enjoy them (try to take them from less stagnant waterways.

They don't eat "everything that moves" but like you said, fish is not a main diet for them and what they do eat mainly does not have the mercury content as others.

I have caught three of the top four snakehead species and they all have slight differences. That is what some of the information gets messed up. Most use information based on the Giant Snakehead (which is the Bad Ass of the snakehead world also the one to catch). I will have the Northern by next year.

Anyways welcome to the fray....

[danb]

Bionic,

First off possession is removing the fish from the water, like removing a sailfish or tarpon for a picture, and it is illegal to possess a live snakehead, so if the law pulls up on you while you are snapping a picture of a live snakehead you are breaking the law and should be ticketed, and once you take possession and release it you are breaking the law agian. You could not beat that in court the law is very clear on possession. Now if you cut the line or remove the hook while the fish is still in the water you have not taken possession, good luck taking a hook out of a snakehead while it is in the water which I am sure you know that is not only difficult but dangerous and I personally would not recommend it, you can stun them with a hit from a bat to remove a hook, at least it looks like you are not in possession of a live snakehead.

As far as your statement that they do not eat everything that moves how would you now if you have not killed them to examine what they are eating?? I have examined over 1000 belly contents of snakeheads and I can assure you they eat anything that moves, all fish species that I could ID, all native and non-native bait species, one had a belly full of shad and that really freaked me out, turtles lots of them have turtles in them, lizards, rats, and birds, found some large vertebrae in a few of the larger fish over 36 inches guess they scavenged, though I have been witness of two monster snakeheads taking down a adult duck and the funny thing is I have never found a frog with the exception of the one in it's jaw along with a 7/O owner hook. So please unless you really know something different do not tell me they do not eat everything, and BTW I have the pictures to back it up.

Like I said I did not join to argue about the subject but trust me, I know regulations and law my day job requires that and I have done my research on what they eat, my night job kind of requires me to know what fish are eating and when.

[Bionic]

Dan, no I do not kill alot of snakeheads and yes the ones I have had the opportunity to do have had lizards, killifish, small iguana, and small hard to tell what they were remains, but no bass or peacocks. No turtles yet (might be do to the area that I'm catching them in) but I know they have been found in their stomach. I have gone by Paul Shaflands research's findings since that is his job and the sampling was of 300, a decent number. Obviously your's of 1000 is a little greater and the timing might be newer and like any apex predator they maybe adapting too. The point I'm getting at is they are not the mindless killing machines that they are being made out to be. Your statement of they eat everything that moves can be applied to LMB as well. Also the duck sighting and snakeheads, I believe a very large one would take a baby duck, I know bass do. (off subject a little I have seen pike do it a few times and that was a unreal sight)

On the possession side of things. The laws intent(and what I was told by a FWC officer) is removing the fish from one body of water and transporting it to another and being in "possession" of a live snakehead, not in the act of removing a hook from it's mouth. Yes you are correct on the literal sense of possession, but is it the implied, that is the question on this issue..and yes that can be a slippery slope kind of deal.

The tarpon/ sailfish and you forgot goliath grouper is just stupid (for photos) and I think most would agree on that.

I wouldn't mind checking out your info sometime as I am always looking for more and not in a doubting way either. I will also show you a couple things you might find interesting.

Ok I'm done for now getting late
Seriously though I would like to get a hold of you and pick your brain.

[Ridgehand]

Tap water being deadly to snakeheads is due to the high chlorine content. I would definitely do a round up to donate the fish to a food bank. Thanks for the information on the snakehead's diet. I see the making of a turtle lure on the horizon! Can I get some JD's Custom Bait Frogs without going through the mail since I'm local? Thanks.

[danb]

Bionic,

I am glad you agree that posing for a picture is possession, yeah if you pull it out to just remove the hook is arguable and we will leave that subject alone. Sorry I did not mention Goliath I was just making a point did think I needed to name every protected species.

Like I said the old guy is retired and it was too soon to say what was in the documents and the sampling was too small to see what they are really doing to the native ecosystem.

I am glad you brought up that they are in direct competition with our native species on food sources, but you also forgot to mention habitat and since there numbers are growing at a alarming rate since the peacock bass died off, there is nothing left in the wild to keep the population in check. I will try and post the official results on here tonight when I get home. I have it in picture form so everyone can see the results, we keep track of the bass caught as well and you will see the results are scary.

You know who I am and how to get in contact with me.

Ridgehand just send a email on the other subject.

[Bionic]

Dan if the number on your website is the one. I will get in touch. I make it down there every 6 to 8 weeks, but I am trying to make it down there in the next 2 to 3

[crashmister]

Actually posing for a picture is only considered possession if it's a prohibited species. FWC has a bit looser reg's on non prohibited, regulated species to promote C&R. Snakeheads are not even regulated so Possession wouldn't be an issue unless you were transporting it live. A simple way around the no release law is, unhook the fish over the water and just drop it. OOPS it slipped and got away, or I didn't know what it was so I let it go to be safe. Don't wanna keep the wrong fish. That by the way is right from FWC, if you don't know, let it go. Call it what you want, it's really a personnel preference in MHO.

Contrary to some reports, there are no new fish handling regulations in Florida. However, the FWC has recently been reminding anglers about existing rules that are meant to protect fish when they can’t be taken.
Fish must be immediately released for several reasons. For example, there is no allowable harvest of goliath grouper and Nassau grouper in Florida.
Tarpon may only be taken if a special tag is clipped to the fish’s lower jaw. Several species, such as snook, redfish and spotted seatrout, can be kept only at certain times and sizes.
When a fish isn’t allowed to be harvested, it must immediately be returned to the water free, alive, and unharmed. However, if a fish is allowed to be taken at a certain size limit, it’s okay to temporarily possess it to measure it, as long as it is measured immediately after removing it from the water, and the fish is then immediately returned to the water free, alive, and unharmed if it is not a legal-size fish.
Anglers should also use common sense when releasing fish. Sometimes it’s better to safely handle a fish to carefully remove the hook so it can be released, and other times it’s best to cut the line as close to the hook as possible while the fish is in the water – especially if it’s large or agitated.
It is okay to take a picture of a fish that is not allowed to be harvested while it’s in the process of being released, but it still must be let go immediately and should not be held in lengthy poses just for the purpose of taking the picture. And it is never legal to hold on to or tow a fish that is not allowed to be harvested to a place to weigh or measure it for a fishing tournament or record.
The plain fact is that many of our most popular recreational fisheries are strictly regulated, and because of this, many fish caught must be returned to the water. Most anglers would agree that anything we can do to minimize the harm to those fish being released will benefit the resource in the long haul.
However, we also don’t want to discourage the fun and excitement of catching fish and documenting the catch, whether for records or the personal satisfaction that comes with sharing this experience with friends and family. That’s why we are attempting to inform the public about safe catch and release techniques, and the harm that can be caused to fish that are handled roughly or held out of the water too long. That is the approach our law enforcement officers are taking, and only egregious cases of mishandling or unequivocal “possession” of an illegal fish would be pursued.

[Ridgehand]

Dan if the number on your website is the one. I will get in touch. I make it down there every 6 to 8 weeks, but I am trying to make it down there in the next 2 to 3

Hit me up when you're coming down. We'll arrange a snakehead outing.

[danb]

BF = Big Fish and we do measurement in inches not weight

[Ridgehand]

Wow! 62 snakeheads! Their arms must have been tired. Were all 62 caught on frogs? And were they fishing from shore or a boat?

[danb]

Yes all 62 wear caught from shoreline fishing Adam caught 32 and Steve caught 30 which is what he usually brings in by himself> Adam finally upgraded his gear and was slamming them, and before anyone cries foul my daughter and I fished for less than an hour and caught 9 so if we would have fished the full 7 hours of the Round Up we would have beat them, the bite was going off and yes all were caught on Frogs, or Peeps

[Ridgehand]

Dan,

Have you noticed specific weather patterns that affect snakeheads feeding drive or aggression?

[danb]

I will try and get something typed up and start a new thread on how to hunt snakeheads

[Ridgehand]

Awesome. Thanks Dan. This way I can throw those frogs of yours more effectively. And hey, let's face it, the more snakeheads we catch, the more baits you sell! Tight lines.

[danb]

Most of what you would you want to know about catching snakeheads is now in the How to section

[danb]

Received some really disturbing news last night from one of our guys, he caught a snakehead off Clintmoore Rd not in any numbers yet but the fish was of breading size.

[migs24]

Wouldn't be surprised if they made into the Lake Ida chains by now. Hopefully we get a good cold snap this year and at least keep them contained down south.