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increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby james380 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:13 am

I'm all for it.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby bolo » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:21 am

Me too.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby Alex07 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:02 pm

I agree
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby killula » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:25 pm

il agree to it as well, its for a better fishery.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby WhoDey » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:47 am

Some snapper are already above 14" like the mutton.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby james380 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:17 am

lol Rob now your pushing it. IMO Grovers start to get meaty around 12", but at the same time i'd be for it for a better fishery in the long run.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby james380 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:30 pm

Get' er done Ricky. I'd be happy to translate you Italian based English. :wink:
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby james380 » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:01 am

Yeah that's one thing we don't have. Some one needs to suck ina biologist into our little clubhouse.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby fishnfool73 » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:11 pm

I agree and have been scramming this for a few years now . If I have to measure a yellowtail, groover, or lane it is to small to keep.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby WhoDey » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:22 pm

james380 wrote:Yeah that's one thing we don't have. Some one needs to suck ina biologist into our little clubhouse.


We have one, his name is JDL.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby JDL » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:29 pm

killula wrote:il agree to it as well, its for a better fishery.


I will chime in with my .02.

This is not necessarily true. The old saying "let the small ones go and keep the big ones" is actually not the best ecological choice for some species. Here's why:

For female fish, fecundity (the amount of eggs a fish is able to produce) increases drastically with body size. Additionally, larger females tend to produce larger and more viable eggs as well. In the case of a swordfish, it is much better to kill several just legal 48" fish then to kill one 500lb fish. This is because a 500lb fish is a large breeding female. In the case of swordfish, almost all fish over 200lbs are female. So if you want to kill a swordfish for the table and still be ecologically friendly, kill fish under 200lbs and let the big girls go to spawn.

Now, what does this mean for the snapper in question?

Mangrove snapper, for instance, mature at between 7-13 inches. Which means that many "barely legal" mangroves at 10" are already sexually mature. Yellowtail males mature at 10inches, and females mature at 10-12 inches. So most legal sized yellowtail are already mature. Muttons mature at 15-19 inches. Additionally, with snappers, fecundity in snapper also increases with increasing body size. This is because larger, older fish dedicate more energy to reproduction while smaller fish dedicate more energy to growth. Therefore, the largest females will produce the most eggs (by far).

So, there is no biological reason to increase the minimum size.

If you are concerned with the health of the snapper fishery, a few other options would make more sense in protecting snapper populations:

1. A slot limit to protect the largest breeding females.

2. Mutton, yellowtail and mangrove snappers spawn by forming large schools over reefs in the summer, likely during full moons (June-Aug). They may spawn several times a season. It is no coincidence that many of the largest snappers are caught during this period (look at the summer spawn fishery for muttons in the Bahamas). The schools are fairly easy to locate and exploit. Most snappers spawn this way (mangrove, mutton, yellowtail). So (and this is likely going to be a very unpopular option) if you are concerned about snapper, it would make more sense to close the snapper fishery for one or more of the months in the summer during the spawn.

Here are some numbers that give you an idea about fecundity in relation to size in some species of snapper:

In red snapper, it takes 212 15 inch red snapper to produce the amount of eggs produced by one 23 inch red snapper.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby westcoast » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:03 am

i'm in

mature or not mature... they just taste better when they're a little bigger. especially yellowtail
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby james380 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:43 am

Even though Snapper is always my primary target I could go along with a no harvesting period or slot limits. Its the rest of the folks who already poach that would be the problem.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby BRunner346 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:04 am

james380 wrote:Even though Snapper is always my primary target I could go along with a no harvesting period or slot limits. Its the rest of the folks who already poach that would be the problem.

:stupid: its a shame
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby GO4EM » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:46 pm

interesting JDL...
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby killula » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:18 pm

JDL wrote:
killula wrote:il agree to it as well, its for a better fishery.


I will chime in with my .02.

This is not necessarily true. The old saying "let the small ones go and keep the big ones" is actually not the best ecological choice for some species. Here's why:

For female fish, fecundity (the amount of eggs a fish is able to produce) increases drastically with body size. Additionally, larger females tend to produce larger and more viable eggs as well. In the case of a swordfish, it is much better to kill several just legal 48" fish then to kill one 500lb fish. This is because a 500lb fish is a large breeding female. In the case of swordfish, almost all fish over 200lbs are female. So if you want to kill a swordfish for the table and still be ecologically friendly, kill fish under 200lbs and let the big girls go to spawn.

Now, what does this mean for the snapper in question?

Mangrove snapper, for instance, mature at between 7-13 inches. Which means that many "barely legal" mangroves at 10" are already sexually mature. Yellowtail males mature at 10inches, and females mature at 10-12 inches. So most legal sized yellowtail are already mature. Muttons mature at 15-19 inches. Additionally, with snappers, fecundity in snapper also increases with increasing body size. This is because larger, older fish dedicate more energy to reproduction while smaller fish dedicate more energy to growth. Therefore, the largest females will produce the most eggs (by far).

So, there is no biological reason to increase the minimum size.

If you are concerned with the health of the snapper fishery, a few other options would make more sense in protecting snapper populations:

1. A slot limit to protect the largest breeding females.

2. Mutton, yellowtail and mangrove snappers spawn by forming large schools over reefs in the summer, likely during full moons (June-Aug). They may spawn several times a season. It is no coincidence that many of the largest snappers are caught during this period (look at the summer spawn fishery for muttons in the Bahamas). The schools are fairly easy to locate and exploit. Most snappers spawn this way (mangrove, mutton, yellowtail). So (and this is likely going to be a very unpopular option) if you are concerned about snapper, it would make more sense to close the snapper fishery for one or more of the months in the summer during the spawn.

Here are some numbers that give you an idea about fecundity in relation to size in some species of snapper:

In red snapper, it takes 212 15 inch red snapper to produce the amount of eggs produced by one 23 inch red snapper.



I know your right. This means most if not every species needs to have a slot limit like the snook and redfish.
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby CHAD » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:44 pm

i :dude: :dude: agree with rijkaard
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Re: increase size limit for mangroves, lanes and ytails

Postby BigBoiFishing » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:08 am

james380 wrote:Even though Snapper is always my primary target I could go along with a no harvesting period or slot limits. Its the rest of the folks who already poach that would be the problem.

exactly. we mostly agree but others won't care, follow suit or change.
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