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Mutton Limit

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Mutton Limit

Postby Rare » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:47 pm

Not sure how the hell i missed this but.......


State and federal fishery managers meeting in Key West this week have proposed reducing the bag limit for one of the Florida Keys' most sought after eating fish -- mutton snapper.

The group, comprised of Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) and South Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico fishery management council representatives, suggested reducing the daily bag limit from 10 fish to four during the regular season and two fish while the fish are spawning in May and June.

While the mutton snapper fishery is healthy, large numbers of South Florida fishermen target mutton snappers while they are spawning at night during and directly before and after full moons. Fishing the mutton snapper spawn in the Keys is widely promoted in sport-fishing magazines, and tourists travel to the Keys in May and June just to target the fish.

"This is a chance for us to get ahead of something before it goes bad," said Gulf of Mexico council member John Sanchez, who proposed the bag limit.

Lower Keys spearfishermen Don DeMaria contends the agencies should instead close off "small concise" fishing areas to protect large mutton snapper spawning aggregations year-round, not just seasonally. This would allow fishermen to fish year-round near those spawning sites but not directly on top of them, he said.

One of the areas he would like to see set aside is Western Dry Rocks reef off Key West.

"This (the proposed bag limit) would still allow big head boats that carry more than 50 people to catch two fish each," DeMaria said. "They can legally do that multiple times a day. This is unacceptable."

The fishery managers focused on three specific species of fish during their day-long meeting Tuesday -- black grouper, and mutton and yellowtail snapper. This specific group of fishery managers has been meeting for the past two years to come up with rules for species of fish found in the Florida Keys and South Florida.

The group was formed because the Florida Keys fall under the jurisdiction of five different fishery management councils and agencies and not all have consistent regulations. The South Atlantic and Gulf Mexico fishery management councils, the FWC, the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary and the National Park Service all have jurisdiction in various areas in Keys waters.

Also, Keys anglers complained of a lack of representation on the South Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico fishery management councils. Those jurisdictions run from Texas on the Gulf side to North Carolina on Atlantic side.

One of the major topics discussed Tuesday was giving the FWC control over bag and size limits and seasonal closures for black grouper and mutton and yellowtail snapper caught in federal waters off Florida. The two federal fishing councils would still maintain control of annual catch limits for the three species of fish.

The group will continue to meet today and Thursday in Key West. Members will further debate and come up with recommendations on South Florida specific rules today and will discuss issues with hogfish and Goliath grouper Thursday.

The group will pass along its recommendations to the South Atlantic and Gulf councils, which will discuss it when they meet jointly in June in Key West.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby grouperking » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:26 am

Now dats some bull$hit :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby fishnfool73 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:34 am

I said this was coming abpout 10 years ago. Shocked it took this long. They will keep shutting down areas and limiting catch counts. I would not be shocked to see muttons shut down for a month or three like grouper. All fishing will be hookless and catch and release only at this rate. Strange you never hear mention of commercial guys doing any harm to species. I can hear me telling my son about the good old days when you could go out and catch some fresh fish for dinner in the future.
Dreaming the dream that one day I can be as good as some of the boatless pros and catch some 12 inch mangrove snapper.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby swordfish » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:00 am

fishnfool73 wrote:I said this was coming abpout 10 years ago. Shocked it took this long. They will keep shutting down areas and limiting catch counts. I would not be shocked to see muttons shut down for a month or three like grouper. All fishing will be hookless and catch and release only at this rate. Strange you never hear mention of commercial guys doing any harm to species. I can hear me telling my son about the good old days when you could go out and catch some fresh fish for dinner in the future.


I hope you're wrong... However, experience tells me you are in fact correct. Sad. :? :? :? :?

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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby krash » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:26 am

10 years is not a long time for the goberment to move on someting...

Not for or against the conservation or limits... but it seems that many are against protecting species during their spawn, unfortunately if there were not protections we'd have little left. Sure its easy picking's during the spawn... aren't most other animals protected during their spawn ?
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby BEOWULF » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:36 am

:thumleft:
krash wrote:10 years is not a long time for the goberment to move on someting...

Not for or against the conservation or limits... but it seems that many are against protecting species during their spawn, unfortunately if there were not protections we'd have little left. Sure its easy picking's during the spawn... aren't most other animals protected during their spawn ?


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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby cantseeme47 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:02 pm

Well time to consider secret storage whenever i get a boat. F that crap
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby PhishingPhanatic » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:12 pm

Where is the science to back up mutton populations being in trouble? Let me guess, there is none. Just another knee-jerk reaction like the ARS closures.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby fishnfool73 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:51 pm

PhishingPhanatic wrote:Where is the science to back up mutton populations being in trouble? Let me guess, there is none. Just another knee-jerk reaction like the ARS closures.


My point exactly. I am for conservation if it is needed and across the board but I am sure this will be only against recs and not commercials. KRASH you are smarter than to just take the goverment at its word.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby Rare » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:12 pm

PhishingPhanatic wrote:Where is the science to back up mutton populations being in trouble? Let me guess, there is none. Just another knee-jerk reaction like the ARS closures.


They don't say it's in trouble & say "the mutton snapper fishery is healthy." The spawning grounds is where they want to make it off limits. Sanchez kind of got it right to be ahead of it before something happens in the closer of their orgy grounds but then turns into dirty Sanchez who proposed the bag limit.

Don DeMaria, is on the right track at first then says, "This (the proposed bag limit) would still allow big head boats that carry more than 50 (which boat is this?) people to catch two fish each," DeMaria said. "They can legally do that multiple times a day. This is unacceptable." :roll:

Let see where this is going but any foothold in this will not be good news in the coming years. I wonder how this will play with the party boat and many other boats who head out to DT if the 4 muttons (or 8 via 2days) or less if Donna DeMaria get her way. :lol:
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby fishnfool73 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:50 pm

The fishery does seem to have dropped off some as far as big fish goes. If they want to shut down all mutton for one of the spawn months , I get it. That means commercial and recs to me though. RARE I would love to know of a boat that takes 50 people out multiple times a day that catches limits of muttons.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby gruntking » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:06 pm

fishnfool73 wrote:I said this was coming abpout 10 years ago. Shocked it took this long. They will keep shutting down areas and limiting catch counts. I would not be shocked to see muttons shut down for a month or three like grouper. All fishing will be hookless and catch and release only at this rate. Strange you never hear mention of commercial guys doing any harm to species. I can hear me telling my son about the good old days when you could go out and catch some fresh fish for dinner in the future.



commercial guys only make up a really small percent of the fishing community seriously think about how many more rec guys are on the water every day
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby PhishingPhanatic » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:41 pm

gruntking wrote:
fishnfool73 wrote:I said this was coming abpout 10 years ago. Shocked it took this long. They will keep shutting down areas and limiting catch counts. I would not be shocked to see muttons shut down for a month or three like grouper. All fishing will be hookless and catch and release only at this rate. Strange you never hear mention of commercial guys doing any harm to species. I can hear me telling my son about the good old days when you could go out and catch some fresh fish for dinner in the future.



commercial guys only make up a really small percent of the fishing community seriously think about how many more rec guys are on the water every day


Bullcrap. Comm guys harvest a lot more fish then recreational guys do.

http://darc.cms.udel.edu/SGSFR/Comparing_Recreational_and_Commercial_Marine_Fishing_Data_Report_May_2013.pdf

"Commercial fishermen in the South Atlantic region harvested 48.5 million pounds of finfish in 2011 compared to 35.6 million pounds caught by anglers. "

"Commercial fishermen in the Gulf of Mexico region harvested 1.4 billion pounds of finfish in 2011 compared to 74.8 million pounds of fish caught by anglers"
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby gruntking » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:44 pm

now let me ask how do they get the numbers from the rec guys ?
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby gruntking » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:46 pm

look im on the water alot more then most of yall i see who is on the water everyday and i'll tell you for every 50 rec boats i see i might see one commercial boat
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby fishnfool73 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:51 pm

Yup and 40 of those recs boats are clueless. Tell it to someone that didn't work in the industry for 13 years Commercials do more harvesting in one day than I do in a year. I have watched them with their BS cast nets / roller nets at Pecks Lake crank in 100-200 mackeral each drop. Clueless commercial guys don't last long but clueless recs do. That is the huge difference in your numbers Joe
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby gruntking » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:39 pm

fishnfool73 wrote:Yup and 40 of those recs boats are clueless. Tell it to someone that didn't work in the industry for 13 years Commercials do more harvesting in one day than I do in a year. I have watched them with their BS cast nets / roller nets at Pecks Lake crank in 100-200 mackeral each drop. Clueless commercial guys don't last long but clueless recs do. That is the huge difference in your numbers Joe


clueless or not does not mean that even a blind dog cant find a bone every now and then

go hang out at haul over for a saturday and just see what kind of damage our fellow rec guys do
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby lkatze2 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:46 pm

if you want a good example of overfished muttons during the spawn, just travel 5o miles to the east. Bimini. That fishery has been hammered during the spawn and through experience the size and numbers have dropped through the years.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby fishnfool73 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:51 pm

They have already shut down numerous mutton spawn sites in the Keys/Dr Tortugas. Strange Joe how you can compare with some recs keeping some fish even if they are undersize vs the tons....tons commercials take in one trip. I am intrested to see what Capt. Greg has to say on thids matter.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby gdm phil » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:03 pm

poop we got 4 mutton Sunday and only ine keeper by a half inch. There are plenty down there
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby Rare » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:16 pm

fishnfool73 wrote: I am intrested to see what Capt. Greg has to say on thids matter.


I was waiting to hear from him. Might have send him the link via PM.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby Leadslinger » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:28 pm

I dont see this as all bad. Especially the proposed limit during spawn.

Dont need it turning into the red snapper debacle.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby fishnfool73 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:49 pm

Leadslinger wrote:I dont see this as all bad. Especially the proposed limit during spawn.

Dont need it turning into the red snapper debacle.


The red snapper debacle ? Another BS rule with no science behind it.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby gruntking » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:35 am

If you ask me I think keeping the shorts does 5 times the damage the commercial guys do atleast most the fish the commercial guys keep have had the chance to spawn




And yess I would also like to hear from captain Greg
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby STRIZ » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:46 am

fishnfool73 wrote: you are smarter than to just take the goverment at its word.


I Love it

Think this was the best comment considering your JOB I have read from you. Not that the other stuff you post is not good but this was better :thumright: :cheers:
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby fishnfool73 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:25 pm

[quote="gruntking"]If you ask me I think keeping the shorts does 5 times the damage the commercial guys do atleast most the fish the commercial guys keep have had the chance to spawn



Your above statement tells me just how uneducated you are about the subject. Commercial guys will sit on a spawning site and clean it out. Can't blame them it is their living and numbers equal money. Certain species will return to the same spawning site year in and year out. You can wipe out an entire areas spawning site and thus no more spwning in the area. Besides larger proven females produce more eggs than younger nonproven females. Lets forget the fact that some species are born males and change to female as they reach breeding size for a female of that species. So explain to me how a dozen short muttons equal less damage than one commercial guy hammering a spawn site.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby gruntking » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:09 pm

soon a lot of things are going to be changing not just our bag limits we are going to be looking at closed zones the whole nine

look man im just saying putting all the blame on the commercial guys is just flat out wrong
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby fishnfool73 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:36 pm

There already are closed zones just not in Miami where you fish mainly. I never placed the blame on commercials only either. You seemed to place all the blame on recs though. I have commercial fished and worked in a seafood market for 13 years. I saw guys come in day after day with 500 -2000 lbs of dolphin during season. Watched the netters at Pecks Lake catch so many Spainish mackeral that after the first few dropped off their catch the market price tanked and they refused to take any more and the remaining fish were dumped to rot or feed the sharks.Need I mention the mullet netters and theiir roe market. I have also seen so much poaching from recs that it sickens me. The biggest difference between rec and commercial guys is they have a strong lobby that ... well call it what it is bribes goverment officals to turn things their way. Any species that is listed as threatened and is shut down to recs should be the same for commercials.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby Leadslinger » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:58 pm

fishnfool73 wrote:There already are closed zones just not in Miami where you fish mainly. I never placed the blame on commercials only either. You seemed to place all the blame on recs though. I have commercial fished and worked in a seafood market for 13 years. I saw guys come in day after day with 500 -2000 lbs of dolphin during season. Watched the netters at Pecks Lake catch so many Spainish mackeral that after the first few dropped off their catch the market price tanked and they refused to take any more and the remaining fish were dumped to rot or feed the sharks.Need I mention the mullet netters and theiir roe market. I have also seen so much poaching from recs that it sickens me. The biggest difference between rec and commercial guys is they have a strong lobby that ... well call it what it is bribes goverment officals to turn things their way. Any species that is listed as threatened and is shut down to recs should be the same for commercials.


Amen to the last sentence.
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Re: Mutton Limit

Postby gruntking » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:47 pm

ohh man im not saying its just the recs im just trying to say its not only the commercial guys its the whole fishing community

oh trust me I know about the whole roe mullet deal on the west side

no the close zones are coming to Miami where I fish I go to the meetings and listen to bouncer and the rest of these people talk
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