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Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

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This area is all about things that can affect the Boatless-Land Fisherman as to State and Local Regulations, Rules that pertain to areas that we may fish and enviromental issues that we need to get involved in. Please read these posts and get invovled. We are stonger in Numbers.

Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby crashmister » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:12 am

Thank's for the post Gator. That's the best both side article I've seen.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby cudaman » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:07 pm

Thanks for that article post....


shark lures, LOL I see they are trying to squeeze fishing out of that beach as anything that resembles a bait maybe interpreted as a shark lure that does not exist.

Jordan i would take a copy of that article with you as it shows the views from the FWC:
Sharks typically avoid people whether or not anglers are present, said Lee Schlesinger, a spokesman for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. "People have been fishing off of beaches in Florida as long as they've been swimming off of them, and the amount of issues with sharks is miniscule," he said.


But, municipal shark fishing bans also could face legal challenges, Schlesinger said.

"Under the Florida constitution, only the FWC has the authority to manage fish and wildlife," he said. "Local governments can do what they like for safety reasons, but there is some question about whether it would hold up if someone challenged it."



Good luck, I wish I could be there.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby gatorjwade » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:20 pm

GUYS, I called City Hall to understand the "status" of this ordinance a bit better...

The woman I spoke with said that at the last meeting this ordinance was "introduced";
at tonight's City Council meeting the ordinance will be voted upon!

It's important for any that object to this ordinance to show up tonight and respectfully voice their opinion. You should arrive by 6pm and complete and submit a small card that indicates what topic you're there to comment on. They will then call your name for comment at the appropriate time. Also, she said, if they have a lot of people there for one topic, they sometimes move that topic to the start of the meeting so they can let all those folks go home rather than sitting thru all the other topics.

I am going to try and make the meeting tonight to voice my objection.
I hope lots of others can make it tonight.

If anyone can contact some of the other folks that have already had some direct success in rebuffing similar ordinances it would be great if we could get them to help us tonight.

Thanks!
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby Jordan » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:21 pm

Thanks for posting that article, and thanks cudaman I'll be sure to make those points.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby fixed80 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:39 pm

crash... i though Indian river and deerfield is not good meaning you cant do it there.
and even if im wrong and its legal to SF... the wealthy men and women of both areas will lie to ya and run you off. hey it happened to me when i was in wabasso IR county. a condo manager name doug distl said i was there when the band was passed. i was like...B!**# you lying right now but i just stayed silenced. i finally called a number for that county just to see if he was really bull s*!t'n to me and was told
it is but yet it isnt. :? he pretty much said that no shark fishing with chum or blood bait, but you can shark fish with live bait though . so really wants that telling me.
another article i saw said no to that in public beaches. the one i was at was isolated.
dont know if i can even blood bait at that particular beach but i know if i was there with live bait im gonna still get h*ll from that same guy and possibly the citizens. :evil: :evil:
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby team fin addicts » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:01 pm

<<<<<<<<<<<<<THOSE OF YOU GOING TO THE CC MEETING TONIGHT>>>>>>>>>>>>

As some of you may know by reading this thread. I put a local CC in their place recently, they cannot enforce these bans even though they may pass them. Most anglers will simply pack up and leave when some one tells them they cannot SF. Jordan take a copy of that article if you can get hold of one before the meeting, it makes your case for you. take the info that crash and I have given you and you will be fine. Best of luck to you, let us know how it goes.

Now the rest of you that need information tonight.....You can email me
wayne.slusser@peektraffic.com or you can call me. I will be available all day to help out anyway I can. I realize putting my number on here may not be the best of ideas, but it is the easiest way to get hold of me. Cell: 941-773-1728 Please, if you are going to go to this meeting and would like information, give me a call.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby BoatlessFisherman » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:33 pm

Those that can make this meeting should go to make numbers.

Those that want to speak in depth Great, but if your shy just say I don't want you to put a Shark fishing ban in.

Every person that shows equates to 300 to 1000 people depending on populous to that city.

So you count for those that don't show.

I am doing what I can to make it tonight, but I had originally been told Wednesday and had set that Date.

Hopefully I can change my schedule.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby crashmister » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:10 pm

fixed80 wrote:crash... i though Indian river and deerfield is not good meaning you cant do it there.
and even if im wrong and its legal to SF... the wealthy men and women of both areas will lie to ya and run you off. hey it happened to me when i was in wabasso IR county. a condo manager name doug distl said i was there when the band was passed. i was like...B!**# you lying right now but i just stayed silenced. i finally called a number for that county just to see if he was really bull s*!t'n to me and was told
it is but yet it isnt. :? he pretty much said that no shark fishing with chum or blood bait, but you can shark fish with live bait though . so really wants that telling me.
another article i saw said no to that in public beaches. the one i was at was isolated.
dont know if i can even blood bait at that particular beach but i know if i was there with live bait im gonna still get h*ll from that same guy and possibly the citizens. :evil: :evil:

Exactly why you have to know your right's. Anyone can tell you anything, ask Wayne! He was threatened with arrest. Fact is IR passed a rule that chumming was not allowed on a public beach. Bloody or fresh bait is fine. You bring up a good point Fixed, depending on who you talk to you can get a different story.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby team fin addicts » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:26 pm

It is a lot of Hassel on your part, but when you are approached by the police or other authorities, they can ask you to leave. If they do, make them tell you why you are being asked to leave, then make them give you a citation for the ordinance or law you are "violating". If you do not receive a citation, the officers no they cannot enforce the ordinance. If you are given a citation, that is your golden ticket. Any judge in Florida should dismiss the case immediately. These Cities think no one will challenge their laws and ordinances, that's why they word so obscurely and loosely. One beach ordinance on the west coast states that between "april 1 and Oct 31 no man made object shall cast a light source from civil twilight to dawn" what the????? When the officers came up to inform me that I was in Violation I informed them that the flashlights they were using to identify me were also in violation. The way the ordinance is written, you cant use a cell phone, light a cigarette, use an FWC approved LED Light or any other light source to see your way around on the beach. Stand up for your rights my friends....
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby Jordan » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:13 pm

Ordinance got dropped I just left...pretty decent turnout though..
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby crashmister » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:22 pm

It's over it got dropped. Shark fishing is alive and well in Boca
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby Boca Jetty Rat » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:24 pm

That's great news!!
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby Jordan » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:26 pm

Nope no one spoke I don't think. I showed up and everyone was outside and zach told me the city dropped it.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby team fin addicts » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:34 pm

great news guys... You all should take pride in the letters that you wrote and the turn out... Make no mistake whether you got to speak or not your voices were heard. This victory should be relished and it is well deserved. Remember Gov't of the people for the people, by the people!!!!!!
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby gatorjwade » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:36 pm

Yup, WOOHOO!

And, we met a contact that we can keep in touch with as it goes for study by marine fisheries group.

THANKS EVERYONE for showing up to support us here in Boca!

:-)
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby PhishingPhanatic » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:49 pm

GREAT JOB everyone. There was no way I could make it down to Boca on time after work, but I just tuned into the live meeting and noticed they skipped the ordinance, so I figured something good happened.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby mmcauliffe » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:26 pm

Great news!! Gratz and thank you to all that got involved!!!

I don't want to be the stick in the mud but....

Need to be vigilant and keep an eye out. They can be sneaky. They may <strike that> They WILL wait until they think no one is watching and try again to pass it sometime down the road.

But for now, savor the victory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby fixed80 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:16 pm

mmcauliffe wrote:They WILL wait until they think no one is watching and try again to pass it sometime down the road.


you know something... i just thought of this right now but they could screw us up real bad
by installing nets off the beaches to prevent sharks from coming close. its already done in several coastal areas in Australia so you never know if it may one day happen over here.

but as of right now :cheers: to the outcome.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby team fin addicts » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:13 pm

Fixed, Hopefully they will do their research on the nets. A lot of sharks are killed in those nets off of Australia and South Africa, most are caught in the nets on their way out... I think with the protection of sharks in America, that is something we wont have to worry about.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby gatorjwade » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:40 am

Follow-up article in the Sun-Sentinel this morning...
The Boca Raton Marine Advisory Board will review the ordinance and meets the first Wed of each month at 7pm at the Municipal Services complex at 2500 NW 1st Ave. The next meeting is on Feb 2.



Article:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/boca-raton/fl-boca-raton-shark-fishing-ban-20110112,0,7813404.story
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby Jordan » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:38 am

Glad to know the emails sent to mike were heard, he's my friends dad, I thought he was blowing me off when he didn't answer.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby BoatlessFisherman » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:30 am

For Curiosity reasons
Who sent Emails, If you will copy and paste your emails here, if you don't mind.

I would like to see the over all expression from those in this site.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby BoatlessFisherman » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:05 am

To Boca Raton City Commissioners, City Officials and whom else it may concern,

Attached is a PDF of very useful information.
http://boatlessfishing.com/forumpics/bocasharkgood.pdf

I wish to inform you, that attempting to impose any law which dictates a restriction from fishing for a specific species. Is in fact illegal under Florida state law. Unless the City Council can show that fishing for that species creates a Public Safety Issue. (Sec 379.2412 State preemption of power to regulate.) Using a little common sense comparison, you will see the facts do not support that Shark Fishing from the beach causes any increased danger to the Public

I will use fishing in general, because pound for pound of Fish Product placed into an area where the public swims, Should if what many claim draw and cause Shark Attacks.

Also keep in mind I have included factual Research and articles by recognized leaders in our environment, that shows that Coastal Pelagic Sharks "which includes all the so called Man Eaters " feed in Shallow beaches, Between Troughs and Tidal flow areas so they are already there, Furthermore It only mentions in research that it is suggested that you do not swim where there is fishing.

We have Many Fishing Piers in Florida, in Broward County there are 4 approximately 3 to 6 miles apart. Every day Hundreds and on certain days Thousands of people fish from those piers. Those Piers are all Located smack in the middle of very busy Public Beaches. Common sense says a lot of Fish products are being put into the water on hooks and from cutting up and scraping the bait tables, one pier alone can place hundreds of pounds per day into the water, yet we have never seen a Shark attack around those piers or any pier to my knowledge in Florida.

Why is that? Because sharks don't bite people but in very rare instances and it is because of mistaken identity due to cloudy and or rough water, people on boards which make them look like food i.e. Turtle. Sharks are Sharks they are not Rocket scientists, they make mistakes. The ocean is a wild environment not your or my backyard. Sharks belong there and swim around people everyday on our beaches. I know this as a fact because I run a fishing pier, I see them swimming near swimmers and not bothering them.

Do you know how many people swim in the ocean around our coast of Florida per Year ?

Florida's beaches are heavily used most of the year; late April to mid-September are the peak season in most of the state. The state's population is estimated at 18 million, and approximately 70 million tourists visit per year. Estimates from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) place the number of swimmers at just over 14 million a year. In addition, NOAA estimates that another 3.5 million snorkelers, surfers, and divers enter Florida water's each year.
Taken from http://water.epa.gov/type/oceb/beaches/2008_fl.cfm

Shark attacks, how common are they? on average there are 60 or so Shark attacks World wide. You may be surprised to know that 40% are right here in Florida, however, by far the greatest number of those are in Volusia County/Daytona.

You will be further surprised to find out that Volusia/Daytona banned beach Shark fishing in 2000 Volusia County OrdinanceSec. 20-116. Fishing.
They tied the all time bite record in 2009, 9 years after their ban went into effect. This is physical proof that Shark fishing Ban's simply don't work.


Banning shark fishing will have no economic effect? Your Bait and Tackle shops would beg to differ.

Yes some Cities in the last 2 years have over-stepped their authority by passing shark fishing bans and some like Indian river county decided to not, because they realized the constitutional issue under Article X. Section 11. and realized they had no authority to impose regulation's on state land. Proof of this can be found by researching City, County, and Municipal challenges to the various Beach re-nourishment projects throughout the state. In every case the state has won due to the fact they own the shore line. The following is the most recent Supreme Court Decision in Stop the Beach re-nourishment Inc. vs The Florida department of environmental protection.



Quote;

On June 17, the Supreme Court held in Stop the Beach Renourishment, Inc. v. Florida Department of Environmental Protection (No. 08-1151) that the land under the water at a Florida shoreline continued to belong to the state even after the state added new sand, extending the beach and interrupting property owners’ exclusive access to the water. By a vote of eight to zero, the Court upheld a decision by the Florida Supreme Court, which had held that the state’s ownership of newly created land at the shoreline was not an unconstitutional taking.

Under Florida law, all beachfront property seaward of the median high-water mark belongs to the state, while the owners of beachfront property own the land between that line and their homes. In 2003, two Florida cities sought to deposit new sand along the shoreline of their beaches, extending the beaches into the sea by seventy-five feet. The new land would belong to the state, depriving the owners of adjacent property of their exclusive access to the water, as well as ownership of any new land subsequently added by gradual natural change. A group of property owners went to state court, arguing that the actions violated the Takings Clause of the Constitution. The Florida Supreme Court rejected that argument, and the Supreme Court agreed. Quote;

You should familiarize yourself with our State laws and our Constitution, because you will be seeing this a lot if you try to stop peoples right to fish for a specific species.

From Our Great States Constitution
379.101 Definitions.--In construing these statutes, where the context does not clearly indicate otherwise, the word, phrase, or term:

(2) "Beaches" and "shores" shall mean the coastal and intercoastal shoreline of this state bordering upon the waters of the Atlantic Ocean, the Gulf of Mexico, the Straits of Florida, and any part thereof, and any other bodies of water under the jurisdiction of the State of Florida, between the mean high-water line and as far seaward as may be necessary to effectively carry out the purposes of this act.

379.104 Right to hunt and fish.--The Legislature recognizes that hunting, fishing, and the taking of game are a valued part of the cultural heritage of Florida and should be forever preserved for Floridians. The Legislature further recognizes that these activities play an important part in the state's economy and in the conservation, preservation, and management of the state's natural areas and resources. Therefore, the Legislature intends that the citizens of Florida have a right to hunt, fish, and take game, subject to the regulations and restrictions prescribed by general law and by s.
9, Art. IV of the State Constitution.


379.2412 State preemption of power to regulate.

The power to regulate the taking or possession of saltwater fish, as defined in s. 379.101, is expressly reserved to the state. This section does not prohibit a local government from prohibiting, for reasons of protecting the public health, safety, or welfare, saltwater fishing from real property owned by that local government.


The Florida State Constitution, Article X, Miscellaneous Section 11 states as follows:

SECTION 11. Sovereignty lands.—The title to lands under navigable waters, within the boundaries of the state, which have not been alienated, including beaches below mean high water lines, is held by the state, by virtue of its sovereignty, in trust for all the people. Sale of such lands may be authorized by law, but only when in the public interest. Private use of portions of such lands may be authorized by law, but only when not contrary to the public interest.
History.—Am. H.J.R. 792, 1970; adopted 1970.



Florida Wildlife Commission
Quick Facts
http://myfwc.com/ABOUT/About_FastFacts.htm

Our Territory

Florida has...

* 53,927 square miles of land
* 5,983 square miles of water
* More than 34 million acres of public and private land
o Including 5.8 million acres of wildlife management areas (one of the largest public-hunting systems in the country)
* 2,276 miles of tidal shoreline (8,426 "detailed" miles)
* About 1,700 named rivers, streams and creeks travelltraveling miles
* Approximately 12,000 miles of fishable rivers, streams and canals and an overall total of 51,858 miles of flowing water, including minor tributaries, creeks and ditches (20,000 of which consistently have water)
* About 7,700 lakes greater than 10 acres, covering 3 million total acres

Our Fish and Wildlife

The FWC protects and manages...

* More than 575 species of wildlife
* More than 200 native species of freshwater fish
* More than 500 native species of saltwater fish

...balancing these species' needs with the needs of more than 18 million residents and the millions of visitors who share the land and water with Florida's wildlife
Annual Economic Impact

* Hunting - $745 million, 10,700 jobs
* Saltwater Fishing - $5.4 billion, 54,500 jobs
* Freshwater Fishing - $2.5 billion, 24,800 jobs (details)
* Total Fishing - $7.5 billion (some anglers don't specify fresh or salt), number one in the nation (Texas, the next highest state, generates $6.1 billion)
* Total Nonresident Economic Impact (Tourism) - $1.0 billion, number one in the nation (Wisconsin, the next highest state, generates $0.6 billion)
* Wildlife Viewing - $3.3 billion, 34,700 jobs
* Commercial Fishing & Seafood Processing - $2.9 billion, 103,200 jobs
* Boating - $18.9 billion, 220,000 jobs




A violation of Constitutional Right is a very serious issue, I will leave you with that to think about.

Have a Great Day.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXX
-Tommy A-

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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby Boca Jetty Rat » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:11 am

Could we all just copy and paste that letter, or is a more personal one better.
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby BoatlessFisherman » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:22 am

Personal Letters work the best when you don't have mass Numbers.

That is why I did not post my letter, I wanted everyone to give there own expression which I think is very important.

I believe some said letter writing was useless well we can see that it does help to postpone issues.

Letters at this point will go unread or may not carry weight until it goes back before the commission lets hope it does not and is completely dropped, Unless they are sent to the Marine Advisory Board, we need an email on them.
Boca Officials have now placed this issue in there hands to determine if it should go to vote or what should go to a Vote.

It is not over, from what I can tell. NoT yet
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Re: Boca Raton passes shark fishing ban

Postby mmcauliffe » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:32 am

BoatlessFisherman wrote: I believe some said letter writing was useless well we can see that it does help to postpone issues.



Indeed, and in fact, the news paper article quoted several posts back said they got 10 emails. Can you imagine their reaction if they got 40, 50 or even 100 well thought out emails next time this comes up. It would blow their socks off.
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